AirTran Trips and Lodging
04-07-2006, 06:18 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
AirTran Trips and Lodging
Any AirTran Pilots out there that can briefly talk trip life/ lodging conditions while out on a trip? Just wanted to know what the work is really like while on the road...I mean jetway.
Is it always 4 on/ 4 off schedules or can you compress two trips into one or do 4 on/ 2 off etc.
Seems like a great company to us outsiders.
Thanks,
Toad
Is it always 4 on/ 4 off schedules or can you compress two trips into one or do 4 on/ 2 off etc.
Seems like a great company to us outsiders.
Thanks,
Toad
04-09-2006, 07:50 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
In terms of trips, I can only speak for the 717.
We fly mostly 2-4 legs a day (1.5 to 3 hr legs) with the occasional 1 or 5 leg day. Seems like there is more and more direct flights outside ATL. Many trips start out leaving ATL and you don't come back till the last leg on the last day.
Lately we have been flying mostly 4 day trips, however 2-3 day trips are not uncommon.
Hotels vary from Comfort Suites to Wyndham and Hilton's, fairly typical. We have a good hotel chairman but his hands are tied by poor contract language and a management team that has shown nothing but contempt for the pilot group since contract negotiations began last year.
A junior schedule would be something like 4 on 3 off, early show times, work weekends. Again, the company has not been building a good variety of schedules as of late, see above.
Once you are off reserve and buildup lines (regular line holder) you can take part in the Schedule Adjustment Period (SAP).
After the finial schedules are awarded, SAP1 allows you to swap trips with opentime and is approved on a seniority basis. This changes the trips in opentime. SAP2 opens after SAP1 closes and allows you to swap trips again and it is awarded on a first come basis.
After SAP2 closes you're pretty much stuck with what you got as the remaining trips go to the buildup line holders and reserves. Very little opentime available after SAP2 is awarded.
As I mentioned before, management is playing hardball. They refuse to even discuss non-economic issues that would better our quality of life.
We fly mostly 2-4 legs a day (1.5 to 3 hr legs) with the occasional 1 or 5 leg day. Seems like there is more and more direct flights outside ATL. Many trips start out leaving ATL and you don't come back till the last leg on the last day.
Lately we have been flying mostly 4 day trips, however 2-3 day trips are not uncommon.
Hotels vary from Comfort Suites to Wyndham and Hilton's, fairly typical. We have a good hotel chairman but his hands are tied by poor contract language and a management team that has shown nothing but contempt for the pilot group since contract negotiations began last year.
A junior schedule would be something like 4 on 3 off, early show times, work weekends. Again, the company has not been building a good variety of schedules as of late, see above.
Once you are off reserve and buildup lines (regular line holder) you can take part in the Schedule Adjustment Period (SAP).
After the finial schedules are awarded, SAP1 allows you to swap trips with opentime and is approved on a seniority basis. This changes the trips in opentime. SAP2 opens after SAP1 closes and allows you to swap trips again and it is awarded on a first come basis.
After SAP2 closes you're pretty much stuck with what you got as the remaining trips go to the buildup line holders and reserves. Very little opentime available after SAP2 is awarded.
As I mentioned before, management is playing hardball. They refuse to even discuss non-economic issues that would better our quality of life.
04-11-2006, 07:40 AM
#5
Available for Contract
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: CL-601
Posts: 193
Min days off
Frank
In your post you stated that most schedules are 4 on 3 off... what is your minimum number of days off per month? Sounds like 12, but just asking because you know what assuming means.
In your post you stated that most schedules are 4 on 3 off... what is your minimum number of days off per month? Sounds like 12, but just asking because you know what assuming means.
04-14-2006, 05:02 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
Minimum 12 for lineholders, most have 14-17, a few with 12-13 and 18-19.
Reserves are guaranteed 10-11 depending on a 30 or 31 day month. Most have more, 12-14 is typical.
The scheduled vary greatly and happen to suck for May.
Reserves are guaranteed 10-11 depending on a 30 or 31 day month. Most have more, 12-14 is typical.
The scheduled vary greatly and happen to suck for May.
Last edited by Frank Rizzo; 04-14-2006 at 05:05 PM.
04-14-2006, 05:47 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Permanent Right
Posts: 125
TankerToad, Don't fixate on trips and hotels. At any airline they can and do change frequently. At the top of your list should be the financial stability of the carrier, their business plan, management, your expected progression (which comes via retirements or expansion), and then everything else. AirTran is near the top of the list in all those categories.
That's why I just left a legacy carrier to join them. 
That's why I just left a legacy carrier to join them.
04-14-2006, 07:14 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks Sherpalifter...not fixated, just one of many calculations to sober my mind before my decision is made...I'll be a reservist soon and needed info on trip days and stuff to figure how I'll fit my 6+ days a month of USAFR duty in.
I interviewed this week and it was better than I'd imagined...seemed like a great group of folks.
I was suprised at the calm, happy environment. Everybody seemed to like it there. Hope they call with good news soon.
Toad
I interviewed this week and it was better than I'd imagined...seemed like a great group of folks.
I was suprised at the calm, happy environment. Everybody seemed to like it there. Hope they call with good news soon.
Toad
04-15-2006, 03:59 AM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
AirTran, the good and the bad. Here you go:
1) Equipment - airplanes are sweet. I am on the 717 and it's a great airplane. Easy to fly, reliable, new, automated. Couldn't ask for better equipment.
2) Hotels - some are good, some are not-so-good. Seems like the standard hotel is a Comfort Inn. These can be hit or miss. Occasionally, we stay in Wyndhams (which are nice). I've never stayed in a Hilton.
3) Trips - It really depends on what you want. I commute so I fly mostly 4-day trips. However, I've got to tell you, four-day trips can be very tiring esp when you run into delays and have long days. The difference between a 3-day and 4-day trip is huge in my opinion in terms of how you feel when it's done.
5) People you work with - I've flown with some absolutely fantastic captains and I've flown with some complete boobs. AirTran went through a period several years ago where it was not an airline of choice and consequently hired some folks that, quite frankly, couldn't get hired many other places. Surprisingly, some of the pilots I've flown with this from this group are extremely good. On the other hand, a couple of them are downright appalling esp in terms of CRM. Overall, though, the captains I've flown with have been laid-back, easy to get along with, and a pleasure to spend a few days with.
6) Labor-management relations - bad to horrible right now. We are in negotiations at the moment and management truly seems to view us as a commodity. Management does not seem to care, in the least, about maintaining even a semblance of a positive relationship with the pilot group. An example is CASS. This is a very important issue if you are a commuter. Implementing CASS at AirTran would cost the company very little and would benefit the pilot group greatly. In fact, it would probably save the company far more money than it costs in terms of reducing sick calls. However, the company refuses to do anything about it. Additionally, much of what the company has proposed in the new contract is not only concessionary, but needlessly insulting to the pilot group. Management has shown a lot of bad faith in the negotiations.
7) Training - the training at AirTran is great. The people in the Training Dept are top notch. I had a great time in training. Our Director of Training seems to me like a genuinely outstanding person. It's easy to come out of training with a very upbeat attitude and then be disappointed to a degree with the environment on the line. You do have to pay for your hotel during training which does suck. My advice is to find a crashpad to stay in or put one together with guys in your class.
8) Business - AirTran seems like they know what they are doing in a business sense. They are essentially breaking even right now with very little in the way of fuel hedging. With the recent fare hikes, I would expect to see substantial profits in the coming quarters. If you ask me, AirTran's Achilles Heel is the way it treats employees. If they can maintain their business plan without inducing mutiny in the ranks, then they will be a long-term winner. They are sort of on the ragged edge of doing that right now. However, I think that is where management likes to be. In other words, I think the employee morale being relatively low is by design vs neglect. Going forward, if management loses control of its ability to effectively balance employee morale, then you could see big problems at AirTran in the future.
9) Pay - pay is not bad. FO pay is relatively low. However, hopefully, you won't be an FO all that long. Captain's pay is competitive with most other airlines right now...though that isn't saying much. Captain's pay is definitely enough to live comfortably on in a middle class environment.
10) Other - Reportedly, a relatively large number of FO's (I heard approx 50) have left AirTran in the last year or so for other airlines like FedEx, UPS, Continental, and Southwest. What does this mean? I don't know. Make of it what you will. When asked what they thought of it, management was said to be unconcerned.
1) Equipment - airplanes are sweet. I am on the 717 and it's a great airplane. Easy to fly, reliable, new, automated. Couldn't ask for better equipment.
2) Hotels - some are good, some are not-so-good. Seems like the standard hotel is a Comfort Inn. These can be hit or miss. Occasionally, we stay in Wyndhams (which are nice). I've never stayed in a Hilton.
3) Trips - It really depends on what you want. I commute so I fly mostly 4-day trips. However, I've got to tell you, four-day trips can be very tiring esp when you run into delays and have long days. The difference between a 3-day and 4-day trip is huge in my opinion in terms of how you feel when it's done.
5) People you work with - I've flown with some absolutely fantastic captains and I've flown with some complete boobs. AirTran went through a period several years ago where it was not an airline of choice and consequently hired some folks that, quite frankly, couldn't get hired many other places. Surprisingly, some of the pilots I've flown with this from this group are extremely good. On the other hand, a couple of them are downright appalling esp in terms of CRM. Overall, though, the captains I've flown with have been laid-back, easy to get along with, and a pleasure to spend a few days with.
6) Labor-management relations - bad to horrible right now. We are in negotiations at the moment and management truly seems to view us as a commodity. Management does not seem to care, in the least, about maintaining even a semblance of a positive relationship with the pilot group. An example is CASS. This is a very important issue if you are a commuter. Implementing CASS at AirTran would cost the company very little and would benefit the pilot group greatly. In fact, it would probably save the company far more money than it costs in terms of reducing sick calls. However, the company refuses to do anything about it. Additionally, much of what the company has proposed in the new contract is not only concessionary, but needlessly insulting to the pilot group. Management has shown a lot of bad faith in the negotiations.
7) Training - the training at AirTran is great. The people in the Training Dept are top notch. I had a great time in training. Our Director of Training seems to me like a genuinely outstanding person. It's easy to come out of training with a very upbeat attitude and then be disappointed to a degree with the environment on the line. You do have to pay for your hotel during training which does suck. My advice is to find a crashpad to stay in or put one together with guys in your class.
8) Business - AirTran seems like they know what they are doing in a business sense. They are essentially breaking even right now with very little in the way of fuel hedging. With the recent fare hikes, I would expect to see substantial profits in the coming quarters. If you ask me, AirTran's Achilles Heel is the way it treats employees. If they can maintain their business plan without inducing mutiny in the ranks, then they will be a long-term winner. They are sort of on the ragged edge of doing that right now. However, I think that is where management likes to be. In other words, I think the employee morale being relatively low is by design vs neglect. Going forward, if management loses control of its ability to effectively balance employee morale, then you could see big problems at AirTran in the future.
9) Pay - pay is not bad. FO pay is relatively low. However, hopefully, you won't be an FO all that long. Captain's pay is competitive with most other airlines right now...though that isn't saying much. Captain's pay is definitely enough to live comfortably on in a middle class environment.
10) Other - Reportedly, a relatively large number of FO's (I heard approx 50) have left AirTran in the last year or so for other airlines like FedEx, UPS, Continental, and Southwest. What does this mean? I don't know. Make of it what you will. When asked what they thought of it, management was said to be unconcerned.
04-15-2006, 04:15 AM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
TankerToad,
Didn't really answer your question in my post.
If you really have to do 6+ days of duty per month for your USAFR job, then it is unrealistic to expect that you will be able to fly a full schedule at AirTran. You can expect a typical schedule to be three four-day trips and one day three-day trip for a total of 15 days. Lots of lines have more days and some lines have less. If you live locally in ATL, then you can break your schedule up into smaller trips.
So, with a typical AirTran schedule, you are looking at a minimum of 21+ days of work. That doesn't include any days for commuting. Will you have to commute to either job? You should definitely consider that. Do you have a family? Do you like to spend time with them? If you have to commute at all, I'd say that you are definitely looking at having to drop at least one trip per month for military leave if you want any quality of life. This is not a big deal as an FO because you will make more in the military. However, as a Captain, you will lose money on military leave.
Didn't really answer your question in my post.
If you really have to do 6+ days of duty per month for your USAFR job, then it is unrealistic to expect that you will be able to fly a full schedule at AirTran. You can expect a typical schedule to be three four-day trips and one day three-day trip for a total of 15 days. Lots of lines have more days and some lines have less. If you live locally in ATL, then you can break your schedule up into smaller trips.
So, with a typical AirTran schedule, you are looking at a minimum of 21+ days of work. That doesn't include any days for commuting. Will you have to commute to either job? You should definitely consider that. Do you have a family? Do you like to spend time with them? If you have to commute at all, I'd say that you are definitely looking at having to drop at least one trip per month for military leave if you want any quality of life. This is not a big deal as an FO because you will make more in the military. However, as a Captain, you will lose money on military leave.
