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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheels up (Post 513937)

Those aren't RJs. They're narrow body airliners. The manufacturers and airline execs will next be trying to paint "RJ" on the side of 777s. It's a lame attempt to manage expectations.

It was my understanding that part of the arbitration was only to decide the company's ludicrous contention that furloughed pilots count as "employed" pilots as specified in the scope language. The ultimate disposition of AE and the commuter clause is something to be "discussed" between AA and the APA. The company could keep stalling this by contending on the meaning of "is" for a long time. Hopefully that will change when the new administration comes in and cleans up the apparent bias in the FMB.

I'd like the company to have back the billion dollars that is squandered on the TWA asset acquisition, but that ain't gonna happen either. I think we're going to have to live with Supp CC, warts and all. I believe that exTWA can bid where ever they like, but they won't enjoy super-seniority like at the protected St. Louis base.

There were alternative methods to integrate the two groups rather than the pummeling involved with Supp CC. The APA was the author of Supp CC warts and all. The microscopic detriment of Supp CC to NAAtives, is far outweighed by the fact that many NAAtive furloughes were mitigated by the integration. Most major airlines furloughed almost 6-8 years worth of pilots. AA only furloughed NAAtives hired in 2000/2001.

Our beloved AMR realized a windfall of over $400 million for the sale of TWA's share of Worldspan. With this in mind, Con Carty bought TWA for half price and divided the pilots groups. You guys should rename F/U to..."The Con Carty School of Friendship".

I'm sick of NAAtives saying they were screwed by Supp CC. It's hard to listen to your whining when you took our seats, jobs, and careers in a methodical manor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FliFast (Post 514657)

I'm sick of NAAtives saying they were screwed by Supp CC. It's hard to listen to your whining when you took our seats, jobs, and careers in a methodical manor.

And we're sick of Reds saying they were screwed by APA. It's hard to listen to your whining when your anchor dragging company on the verge of insolvency was thrown a lifeline in a methodical "MANNER" (correct spelling.) Now stop your whining and enjoy one of aviation's highest paying jobs. Most of us would gladly trade with you.

Quote:

And we're sick of Reds saying they were screwed by APA

wow, aa73, I never quite looked at it that way and realized the terrible burden we have put on you. Now I realize that my 6 year furlough pales in comparison to the inconvenience you have suffered having endure this terrible "whining".
Please accept my most sincere condolences for the hardship you have endured since the "integration".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cipollini (Post 514840)

Condolences accepted. You can also send your condolences to the Natives that are furloughed, as well. In the meantime, as long as you and your buddy FliFast are gonna continue bringing up the past and whining about your screw job, you're gonna hear it from both sides, because both sides have their issues to whine about.

I've tried to be professional and civilized on this subject, but some of your coworkers on this board choose to throw stones.. we can all play that game.

We'll extract our damages from ALPA. If they name APA, so be it.

X

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Rated (Post 513828)

And guess what: if DOH had been given to both Reno and TWA the TWA CA's would still be senior.

Interesting.

When was Reno Air's first flight? July 1, 1992 (from RenoAir.net)

When did AA stop hiring in the early 90's? I am thinking around or just after The Persian Gulf War. 1990-1991.... I think there may have even been furloughs during that time.

Didn't Reno get date of hire?

Not trying to be a wise AAss, just trying to figure it out.

X Rated, very good points you made!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoWake200 (Post 516369)

Here's what I found.
A quick look at the Seniority list shows last AA hire in 26 APR 93. Hiring resumed 27MAR 98 and through 14DEC 98, the Reno Air thing happened according to friends and what I read Nov. 98. The Reno Air pilots all were stapled to the bottom of the AA seniority list on Feb 19 1999.
The most senior Reno Air Captains hire date was JAN 92.
I added up the Reno Air pilots. They were all stapled behind 596 AA new hires in 1998. A look at the seniority lists shows the last Reno Air pilot hired beginning of 1998. So the Reno pilots go from 1992-1998.
According to the seniority list Reno got date of hire for longevity pay the same as TWA. A phone call confirmed the last Reno Air CA was displaced to FO in DEC 99.
7576

Xrated wrote,
And guess what: if DOH had been given to both Reno and TWA the TWA CA's would still be senior.

That is partially true. my understanding is that there were several very very junior 717 (MD95) CA's. I met recently.
7576

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7576FO (Post 516454)

Not by my records. There was no hiring--at least from the seniority list that I have--at TWA between October, 1990 and January, 1994.

X

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheels up (Post 513937)

It was my understanding that part of the arbitration was only to decide the company's ludicrous contention that furloughed pilots count as "employed" pilots as specified in the scope language.

I'd like the company to have back the billion dollars that is squandered on the TWA asset acquisition, but that ain't gonna happen either. I think we're going to have to live with Supp CC, warts and all. I believe that exTWA can bid where ever they like, but they won't enjoy super-seniority like at the protected St. Louis base.

I agree it is ludicrous to contest the floor while claiming furloughed pilots count towards it. Ridiculous.

But, it was only $750 million to acquire $2 bllion worth of airline in TWA, and AA sold TWA's worldspan share for $280 million, AA only really spent a net of $470 million. They'd still be in the same financial predicament now without the TWA acquisition, the only difference would be instead of furloughing mostly TWA pilots you'd have 2500+ junior AA pilots on the street.