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Old 12-02-2008, 08:49 AM   #1  
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Default American Airlines Presentation

http://www.aanegotiations.com/docume...otiations3.pdf

American management presented this to mediators.

I don't work for American and I will not likely ever pursue a job with them, but this ****es me off.

From what I understand, American pilots are seeking restoration of their contract. It is amazing how easy it is to twist information to suit a person or company's goals.

They should have showed the real presentation of the islands and countries the executives would like to buy but aren't able to because their greedy pilots aren't willing to work for low wages.
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Old 12-02-2008, 11:46 AM   #2  
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I read the whole thing this morning. May 2003, the pilots take a 23.5% pay cut to keep AA from declaring bankruptcy. They changed our vacation to a very negative bias (less time home). They changed our reserve system to allow reserves to fly more. I was on reserve several times since 2003 and flew up to 85 hours a month. I just looked and saw that I flew 775 hours in the last 12 rolling months. So how is it that AA claims I only flew 51.3 block hours a month.
Why doesn't AA compare my salary to UPS, FedEx or even Southwest?
Why does AA say in their graphs that Southwest is poised for growth and profitability at their wages, yet pilots at AA that make substantially less than FedEx, UPS and Southwest are not normal?
Our whole contract changes from 2003 were AA's ideas to keep us out of BK.
To make us more productive. And we are.
Our management at AA uses FedEx and UPS managers pay scales to justify their own pay rates/bonuses and stock options. Yet they refuse to allow AA pilots (APA) to use FedEx and UPS pilots rates of pay as comparisons.
At AA cargo is not included in American Airlines. Any profit from cargo is allocated for AA Cargo a different company under AMR.
AA says APA is not taking into account the economy in their demands for better compensation. Did the AA managers take into account in 2006 that they awarded themselves ALL of the PROFIT from 2006 in bonuses?

I just no longer believe anything the managers and company negotiators are reporting.

This is going to be a street fight when they put out stuff like this.
7576FO AA pilot.
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Old 12-02-2008, 12:01 PM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7576FO View Post
I read the whole thing this morning. May 2003, the pilots take a 23.5% pay cut to keep AA from declaring bankruptcy. They changed our vacation to a very negative bias (less time home). They changed our reserve system to allow reserves to fly more. I was on reserve several times since 2003 and flew up to 85 hours a month. I just looked and saw that I flew 775 hours in the last 12 rolling months. So how is it that AA claims I only flew 51.3 block hours a month.
Why doesn't AA compare my salary to UPS, FedEx or even Southwest?
Why does AA say in their graphs that Southwest is poised for growth and profitability at their wages, yet pilots at AA that make substantially less than FedEx, UPS and Southwest are not normal?
Our whole contract changes from 2003 were AA's ideas to keep us out of BK.
To make us more productive. And we are.
Our management at AA uses FedEx and UPS managers pay scales to justify their own pay rates/bonuses and stock options. Yet they refuse to allow AA pilots (APA) to use FedEx and UPS pilots rates of pay as comparisons.
At AA cargo is not included in American Airlines. Any profit from cargo is allocated for AA Cargo a different company under AMR.
AA says APA is not taking into account the economy in their demands for better compensation. Did the AA managers take into account in 2006 that they awarded themselves ALL of the PROFIT from 2006 in bonuses?

I just no longer believe anything the managers and company negotiators are reporting.

This is going to be a street fight when they put out stuff like this.
7576FO AA pilot.
Thanks for the summary. I am sick to my stomach........ I think I will pass on the propagAAnda... Taking my First class medical next Monday and do not need to rise my blood pressure.

AAflyer
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:27 PM   #4  
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I am one dizzy man after that spin...what a painful read.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:41 PM   #5  
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Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:15 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7576FO View Post
I read the whole thing this morning. May 2003, the pilots take a 23.5% pay cut to keep AA from declaring bankruptcy. They changed our vacation to a very negative bias (less time home). They changed our reserve system to allow reserves to fly more. I was on reserve several times since 2003 and flew up to 85 hours a month. I just looked and saw that I flew 775 hours in the last 12 rolling months. So how is it that AA claims I only flew 51.3 block hours a month.
Why doesn't AA compare my salary to UPS, FedEx or even Southwest?
Why does AA say in their graphs that Southwest is poised for growth and profitability at their wages, yet pilots at AA that make substantially less than FedEx, UPS and Southwest are not normal?
Our whole contract changes from 2003 were AA's ideas to keep us out of BK.
To make us more productive. And we are.
Our management at AA uses FedEx and UPS managers pay scales to justify their own pay rates/bonuses and stock options. Yet they refuse to allow AA pilots (APA) to use FedEx and UPS pilots rates of pay as comparisons.
At AA cargo is not included in American Airlines. Any profit from cargo is allocated for AA Cargo a different company under AMR.
AA says APA is not taking into account the economy in their demands for better compensation. Did the AA managers take into account in 2006 that they awarded themselves ALL of the PROFIT from 2006 in bonuses?

I just no longer believe anything the managers and company negotiators are reporting.

This is going to be a street fight when they put out stuff like this.
7576FO AA pilot.
I missed you mention that they furloughed 1900 TWA pilots too after the 2003' contract. Most of which are still on the street 5-7 years later.

I'll take a 23% paycut any day over a 100% paycut.

Sorry, my friend, just putting things in perspective.

Best of Luck in Negos.

FF
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Old 12-02-2008, 08:04 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FliFast View Post
I missed you mention that they furloughed 1900 TWA pilots too after the 2003' contract. Most of which are still on the street 5-7 years later.

I'll take a 23% paycut any day over a 100% paycut.

Sorry, my friend, just putting things in perspective.

Best of Luck in Negos.

FF
Hey, FliFast actually brought up TWA in a totally non-related thread!

Yawn. Your "perspective" gives broken records a bad name! Why are you always so inclined to bring up TWA at the mere mention of an AA thread? He didn't mention TWA furloughs - or any furloughs for that matter - because it wasn't part of the thread.

I, my friend, would ABSOLUTELY take a furlough in order to restore our contract to its rightful place. It means that I would come back to a job that's worth it.

FUPM!
73

Last edited by aa73; 12-02-2008 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 12-02-2008, 11:10 PM   #8  
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AA73,

HAAAA !! Goood post.

You may have my 5 1/2 year furlough and all the little goodies that are associated with it. Prior to my present job, I would have gladly taken your spot. Some of us have been furloughed for almost 8 years, tell me true, you would rather be out of work for 8 years and then come back to this great and wonderful job after maybe a 15 year furlough. You get a yawn, a fart, and a burp for that statement.

I've always held you in high regard for being a NAAtive pilot. I honestly think someone stole your APC password and posted the above message.

Any contract negotiated between the APA and AMR affects all pilots on the AA seniority list whether active or furloughed. Do you disagree ?

Many American Airlines pilots don't even know they acquired and pummeled TWA and it's pilots. And so, when it comes time for macro issues such as a collective bargaining agreement they are clueless that TWA pilots that were screwed by you and your APA will be affected by any future contracts no matter what. Negotiated staffing levels defined in a contract directly affect furloughed employees and their recall. Pay rates for new equipment could indirectly affect furloughees as part of a give and take deal to recall membership by the union.

Funny, how when someone defends his pilot group against arrogance he's called a broken record, and when you guys proclaim how AMR is being arrogant you guys are our saviors. Hypocritcal to say the least.

I think I just got a little vomit and on my new white shoes..thanks.

All issues aside, Happy Holidays to you, 7576, and AAFLyer and your families,

FF

Last edited by FliFast; 12-02-2008 at 11:18 PM. Reason: I Spelled "Fart" wrong.
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Old 12-03-2008, 03:54 AM   #9  
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APA's contract proposal asks for LOS (Length of service credit) for ALL furloughees.

FliFast wrote,
Many American Airlines pilots don't even know they acquired and pummeled TWA and it's pilots.

7576FO responds,
Anyone that was a CA at TWA (with the exception of 717 pilots) is/will/has/has been/still is/can/can be/reserve the right to be a CA at American.

There are currently over 300 Ex TWA CA's that have been in the left seat the whole time. Supp CC protects all CA's and reinstatement rights.

There are many native AA furloughees.

There is some truth that some AA pilots don't pay attention to anything that does not affect themselves.
TWA had 2,400 pilots. AA had over 8,500 pilots. The ratio alone naturally suggests that there would be more pilots that just don't care.

For me, a furloughed pilot is an AA pilot. I care. I will vote accordingly.

Happy holidays to all.
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Old 12-03-2008, 05:45 AM   #10  
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Well, since he turned it into a TWA thread.
Before TWA at AA I had 1,500 below me.
After TWA, 830-930 TWA CA's came in senior to me and retained their CA seats.
There were 2,400 TWA pilots.
Now to be fair. Since 2001, many TWA CA's have retired. I just looked at the APA 3XP which is way more accurate than the AA Pilots 3XP (3XP is the base equip list and seat for AA) and I show 371 Ex TWA CA's.

As far as supp CC. After 2001 AA closed all ex TWA bases and put all TWA pilots in St Louis. Even I wouldn't be happy about that. No-one likes to have to commute. That was not fair.
I recall in 2002 all TWA pilots were then covered by Green Book (APA contract pay rates and rules) which was a 35% pay raise for all TWA pilots.
All TWA pilots receive credit for length of service for AA pay rates.
Under Carl Icahn, I do not believe pay raises were in the future for TWA.
I could be wrong though.

Anyone hired after 1986 at TWA was ratio'ed in at 8 to 1 all the way down the list.
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