Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HalinTexas (Post 526109)

SWA hand flies the Cat II&III because of the HUD and no ATs.

---

No, they hand fly the Cat 2/3 approaches because it’s cheaper. If you don’t bother to buy ATs for your aircraft and don’t want to maintain autopilot systems to allow autoland, a hand flown approach with the HUD is your only option.

Not an area to go cheap, IMO. It may be a piece of cake most of the time but it’s still hand flying which leaves room for error. As a pax, I think I’d rather have an autoland than hope the pilot has brought his A-game that day.

Sounds like it is a sweet system. It would be a nice backup to a normal autoland system in the event the aircraft was not in Cat-2 or 3 status.

It would seems like it’s best suited for smaller aircraft. If you have a 50’ DH, it’s likely that the cockpit of large widebodies would still be in the soup if it’s a 600/600/600 approach at mins.

Handflown CAT3b?
 

For WN and B6:

I'm curious what your mins are for a handflown CAT3b?

At FX we have RVR 600 with a 100RA Alert Height for the Airbus and RVR 300 (some airports) with a 100RA Alert Height for the MD-11.

With the HUD do you have to see to land?

Yes, they have to see to land. That's why they have a 50' DH. DH means see to land.

Alert height is just a checkpoint for fail operational systems. Failure prior requires a go-around. Failure after will still allow the aircraft to safely land in the touchdown zone. There is no requirement to establish external visual reference at alert height.

I understand. What I meant to ask is are they flying CAT3b as a "see to land"? As you know, we (FX) are not required to have any visual cues to land under CAT3b.

They are hand flying a Cat-3 using a HUD. That means see to land. I seriously doubt their op specs (or anyone's) allow a hand flown landing without seeing something.

We're not required to have visual cues because we're flying a coupled approach to an autoland. Big difference.

I guess what I'm having a hard time grasping is how they are flying CAT3b handflown? Isn't the whole idea of of 'b' as opposed to 'a' not having to see?
I better get off APC and do some reasearch.:)

No, 3b just means a DH lower than 50' or autoland and RVR between 150-700 feet.

3a is DH below 100' or autoland and RVR no less than 700 feet.

Using a DH means see to land, regardless of which approach you're flying. No DH=no see to land (but I think this obviously requires autoland).

No one from SWA has gotten on here and actually specified they fly Cat-3b or said what their actual mins are. Maybe that will shed some light on the situation.

Fom
 

SWA is CATIIIa, not b. Inside each cockpit says so unless a component is MEL'd. We are down to 50DH and 700rvr. Yes we hand fly it because we are cheap and do not want to keep up the autopilot gear, whatever that is. HUD ops were introduced to SWA by Morris during that merger or buyout.

That's the answer I was looking for. Posting #6 in this thread indicated that JetBlue was going to do handflown CAT3b. I didn't think you could do a '3b without autoland.