Airline Pilot Central Forums - SWA CAT III Question

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At JetBlue we have to "see-to-land" hence the 50ft DH. Our mins for cat IIIb (will be) 600/400/advisory. The HUD also has a flare function built in once you reach DH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCargo (Post 526488)

That's the answer I was looking for. Posting #6 in this thread indicated that JetBlue was going to do handflown CAT3b. I didn't think you could do a '3b without autoland.

To further cloud the water that is exactly what we are doing (your 2nd sentence).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCargo (Post 526488)

That's the answer I was looking for. Posting #6 in this thread indicated that JetBlue was going to do handflown CAT3b. I didn't think you could do a '3b without autoland.

Clutch,
There's nothing I've ever seen that restricts Cat-3b to autoland only(company opspecs might but not FAR or ICAO type rules). It allows use of a DH (less than 50') which implies see to land operations (like in some of the CDG approaches). How you get to that DH in order to see something (w/ approval from on high) seems to be irrelevant (although, if I was riding on that aircraft, it would be HIGHLY relevant to me!!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClutchCargo (Post 526413)

I guess what I'm having a hard time grasping is how they are flying CAT3b handflown? Isn't the whole idea of of 'b' as opposed to 'a' not having to see?
I better get off APC and do some reasearch.:)

That is why they have to use higher mins than we do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash8Pilot (Post 526212)

I don't know about Southwest, but Horizon's Dash 8's were RVR 600/600/600 with a 50 ft DH. I think they mentioned in training that the Q400 and CRJ-700s were 600/600/400, though I never flew them so I'm not positive on that.

You are correct - the QX Q-400's and RJ's are 600/600/400. They had a newer version of the HGS that had runway remaining guidance; something the older version on the Dash-8 200 did not have.

When I tell people at my new airline that this little regional has been flying hand flown Cat III approaches in a turboprop since the mid '90's, they don't believe me!

SW, DL, AS, and QX all use various models of the Flight Dynamics HGS system. All Cat III certified HGS's have flare guidance that will take you right down to touchdown on the runway. Though you are required to see the runway to go below the 50' DH, its still a very precise system. At QX we used to fly HGS approaches to 0/0 in the sim. After landing we would bring the vis back up only to find the plane right on centerline. Definately helps build confidence.

The Fed's really like the HGS system. They allowed QX to use 1800 RVR at many 2400 RVR runways, Cat II as low as 1000 RVR, and single engine Cat III. Autoland is a great system, but is expensive and systems intensive.

As an FO at QX, I got to do CATIII approaches in the sim during training from the left seat. That was by far the easiest approach to fly. As Dash8widget said, it could be a 600RVR morning in Seattle and still a legal takeoff alternate.