flyingkangaroo

How many AA pilots were displaced to eagle? Im just wondering if AE upgrade times will change in any drastic manner and assuming that they do how does the AE to AA flowthrough work?

KZ1000Shaft

about 450

Upgrades may climb into this century

And it doesn't work.

B757200ER

Sox fan, eh? Hey, they won the Series last year!

AA announced recalls of 10/month, staring in Jan 2007. It won't even put a dent in the 2,890 furloughed. The B-737 in MIA at AA is so understaffed, they call line-holders on days off begging them to work. All that while UAL and DAL contemplate hiring off the street. There's something wrong with this picture.

CE750

As someone who interviewed with them and was thru "the process" waiting on a class in Sept 11, 2001, this thread is depressing. Frankly, I've given up on my ever getting on with them, and if I were to get hired onto a decent outfit now (I'm plugging away at a couple of good ones now), I'd be hanging my hat there for the next 28 years until I'm 65

I don't get American's lack of growth and desire to re-capture these growing pax counts..

Mink

As a furloughed AA'er, yes, I agree, there's something wrong. From my very distant and generally disinterested view of things at AA, they are happy to wait until the absolute last possible moment to start recalling in any large numbers, no matter what the retirement numbers are, no matter what the pax loads are, no matter what...

Supposedly, they have gone through close to 100 names to get the initial 10 bodies for the first trickle of recalls. As they get deeper into the list, I can only imagine they will have a harder time getting takers to come back. I have no idea how long guys that they are calling now have been on the street, but I know I've been away for over 5 years now. I've moved on, and I would imagine so have most others, so hiring off the street will be in the cards at some point, but way too hard to tell at this stage of things as to exactly when.

For now, they seem content to continue shrinking to profitability - parking planes, cutting back on routes, not bringing back furloughed employees to meet what appears to be heavily increasing demand. Maybe they know something we all don't...?

flyingkangaroo

Ok so assuming 450 go back to AA mainline and they do start hiring again, how is the flowthrough supposed to work?

On another note you guys are seriously bitter! Do you remember why you started learning to be pilots? where you all about the money and contracts then or was your dream more important? seriously do you remember working 7 days a week as a cfi? OH GOD it must be horrible being at a regional for ten years making 80k a year! hold on i need to rag on a few more things to make this a normal post on an apc forum! Screw alpa, management, mesa and there scab pilots, southwest and their fuel hedging, the public for being dumb, our decisions to be pilots cause you should choose a better career as a fast food manager, I mean, they make more! I don't know about other people but you guys down the pilot career so much you should just quit and make room for the rest of us who really enjoy being a pilot. Next time some 5 year old kid smiles at the wings on your chest go slap that little beotch and tell him that he's just going to be next in line to be F'ed by ALPA and dereg!!

Mink

Let's face it - pilots like to whine. Some of it is just that - whining. But some of it is well-earned, well placed-criticism of "the system". I would like to think even the most ardent complainers are doing so to try to improve their lot in life, and hopefully improve things for those around them. I guess the bottom line is pilots, for the most part, are stuck between a company that would happily fly you to the FAA max and pay you the Fed min wage, and a union that would love for you to get paid huge sums of money for doing very little work. The "truth" is somewhere in the middle.

Also, as for the love of flying, I think most of us got into the business for that very reason, but food has to be put on the table, kids have to be sent to college, mortgages have to be paid. And "love of flying" won't cover any of those things.

Take a step back and look at what's happened to the industry over the past five years and I think you'll see why there's some bitterness out there. I, for one, know the things that lured me away from the military and into the airlines ("security" (ha!), pay, retirement package, schedule, upgrade ability) back in late 2000 are no longer there in any manner close to what they were. And very few of the young guys in the military (I'm back in and loving it!) facing the decision now to stay or go are considering the airlines - they've seen the train wreck and want no part of it.

To put it mildly, some new $hit has come to light, and it's not all good.

KZ1000Shaft

I'll answer this part and not even touch the bitter part.

In theory, 50% of new hire classes was supposed to be eagle flow throughs. This never actually happened and only a hand full of eagle pilots actually went to AA prior to being furloughed. The letter of agreement (letter 3) is due to expire fairly soon. With AA only recalling 10 per month, letter 3 will expire prior to any new hire classes being formed. Once letter 3 expires either a new agreement will be made or no flow through will exist (my bet is on the latter).

shackone

No kidding!!

Security? Don't bank on it for most situations.

Pay? Not significantly better on average. A 10 year USAF Captain, married, and on flight status will bring home a pretty good salary...somewhere around $81000. Them's not peanuts.

Retirement? Not that much there anymore. That same Captain who retires as a LtCol after a 20 year career will get $42000 a year...forever. And not have spent one dime for it. He'll be about 43 years old.

Schedule? All things said, it's likely the civvie route still wins here.

Upgrade? Guys in heavies upgrade to 'Captain' quicker in the military. Fighter/ IP guys were always Captains.

aa73

Gents:

Recalls are starting at 10/month in January, forecast to increase to 20-40/month later in the year. The number they are looking for is 200 pilots next year. Right now there is a 1 to 5 acceptance rate. The only ones that will probably definitely come back are the flow backs at Eagle.

As far as hiring goes, I think we'll get through the whole list in about 3 years max, and then hiring would start. FYI, total number on the street is down to 2835. I don't think there will be a problem recruiting pilots to work at AA, we still have decent work rules and a pretty good pay scale that will only get better with our next contract.

I've been here almost 7 years and am currently the junior "Native" on the property... and looking back, it's been a great place to work. Chiefs always give me the days off I need, paychecks never bounce, great route system and a variety of aircraft/schedules to choose. Yes it's got its problems just like any other airline but overall, a great place to work.

Welcome back to those furloughees who are coming back... you will get either MIA/737/D or LGA/S80/D. (P.s. choose the LGA/S80! )

73