American's Hiring Plans
 

With several of the other majors hiring, is there any word on when AA may start hiring again. I read somewhere, sorry don't remember where, that AA will lose 80% of its pilots in the next 10 years due to retirements assuming age 60. It would seem that some hiring has to start soon. I know AE is hiring now.

According to airline pilot central, American has over 2800 pilots on furlough. Your grandchildren may get an opportunity to interview.;)

Even if American and the other legacy carriers were to suddenly start hiring, it's a job you wouldn't want now anyway.

i do not think they will lose 80% of their pilots over the next ten years.

there are close to 3000 on the street. recalls are expected for the summer ramp up next year. if they recall at 100 a month, it will take roughly a year and a half to recall them all (assuming a 50% retention rate).

AA has 2,890 pilots furloughed. They have not recalled one single pilot since 9-11, and no recalls are planned. If and when recalls occur, they will not bring back 100 pilots per month. The maximum capacity of their training academy is 50-55 pilot per month, so do the math. In the old days, 100 per month was 50 F/Os, and 50 F/Es; there are no longer F/Es, so the capacity remains 50/month.

AA's pilot group is very young, compared to CO/DL/US/NW and others. The average age of their pilots is in the mid/late-40s. There will be nowhere near 80% retiring in the near future, trust me.

they wont hire anyone off the street
they have to recall all the people they sent to EAGLE first.

the 100 per month was simply used by me for "easy" math. so with 50/mo. double what i said and say three years then to recall everyone (with a 50% retention rate).

Yeah, it could be 36 months before all AA pilots recalled. But, I think closer to 90-95% will take recall, unlike UAL which apparently has to call 3 pilots to et 1 to come back. Noone wants to be at the bottom of a large seniority list on RSV.

Just what job is it that meets your requirements?

Furlough Recall
 

From my point of view, being furloughed for the last 4.5 years, that at least 50% will not go back to American. Thats just an estimate gleaned from the fact that most of my furloughed friends have found work elsewhere, SWA, FedEx, CAL, etc. or have lost the desire to work for any airline.

Working for one of the handful of AAA rated companies in the entire WORLD!

so how do you reconcile that with the other statements you make about your job including this one I read this morning:

"If you're lucky, they won't hire you. This place sucks, go somewhere else instead."

AA's pilot group is very young, compared to CO/DL/US/NW and others. The average age of their pilots is in the mid/late-40s. There will be nowhere near 80% retiring in the near future, trust me.[/QUOTE]

Not compared to DL anymore

UPS does suck to work for. That does not change the fact that they are incredibly successful and financially stable.

Why would the SEND people to eagle? Do they have relations with AE?

AA retirements next ten years.



2006: 284

2007: 330

2008: 441

2009: 435

2010: 388

2011: 333

2012: 326

2013: 413

2014: 579

2015: 643

2016: 689

4861 Total. Take it for what it's worth.

One mans opinion. They aren't my favorite people in the world, but the check clears nicely every two weeks. They don't bother me on my off time, and they don't bother me when I am at work. They will never make the list of best places to work in america, but if you don't take their behavoir persoanlly, it is a pretty good job. Maybe you need to take a deep breath and step away from them for a while? I could probably name ten companies off the top of my head that would suck to work for, UPS would not make that list. Could it be better? Sure. Could it be worse? Absolutly

They own them, and there was a plan to send pilots to eagle in lieu of a furlough. Many thought that worse than a furlough apparently <G>

To Browntail
 

You say UPS sucks. Why don't you look inward. Maybe you suck!!

40.3% of American will retire in the next 10 years is my math. That's assuming all furloughs go back. Thats a big chunk of the pilot group! So, yes, they will start hiring promptly after recalls, keep in mind, Eagle has a flow through. But they will still hire some off the street.

How many AA pilots were displaced to eagle? Im just wondering if AE upgrade times will change in any drastic manner and assuming that they do how does the AE to AA flowthrough work?

about 450

Upgrades may climb into this century

And it doesn't work.

Sox fan, eh? Hey, they won the Series last year!

AA announced recalls of 10/month, staring in Jan 2007. It won't even put a dent in the 2,890 furloughed. The B-737 in MIA at AA is so understaffed, they call line-holders on days off begging them to work. All that while UAL and DAL contemplate hiring off the street. There's something wrong with this picture.

As someone who interviewed with them and was thru "the process" waiting on a class in Sept 11, 2001, this thread is depressing. Frankly, I've given up on my ever getting on with them, and if I were to get hired onto a decent outfit now (I'm plugging away at a couple of good ones now), I'd be hanging my hat there for the next 28 years until I'm 65 ;)

I don't get American's lack of growth and desire to re-capture these growing pax counts..

As a furloughed AA'er, yes, I agree, there's something wrong. From my very distant and generally disinterested view of things at AA, they are happy to wait until the absolute last possible moment to start recalling in any large numbers, no matter what the retirement numbers are, no matter what the pax loads are, no matter what...

Supposedly, they have gone through close to 100 names to get the initial 10 bodies for the first trickle of recalls. As they get deeper into the list, I can only imagine they will have a harder time getting takers to come back. I have no idea how long guys that they are calling now have been on the street, but I know I've been away for over 5 years now. I've moved on, and I would imagine so have most others, so hiring off the street will be in the cards at some point, but way too hard to tell at this stage of things as to exactly when.

For now, they seem content to continue shrinking to profitability - parking planes, cutting back on routes, not bringing back furloughed employees to meet what appears to be heavily increasing demand. Maybe they know something we all don't...?

Ok so assuming 450 go back to AA mainline and they do start hiring again, how is the flowthrough supposed to work?

On another note you guys are seriously bitter! Do you remember why you started learning to be pilots? where you all about the money and contracts then or was your dream more important? seriously do you remember working 7 days a week as a cfi? OH GOD it must be horrible being at a regional for ten years making 80k a year! hold on i need to rag on a few more things to make this a normal post on an apc forum! Screw alpa, management, mesa and there scab pilots, southwest and their fuel hedging, the public for being dumb, our decisions to be pilots cause you should choose a better career as a fast food manager, I mean, they make more! I don't know about other people but you guys down the pilot career so much you should just quit and make room for the rest of us who really enjoy being a pilot. Next time some 5 year old kid smiles at the wings on your chest go slap that little beotch and tell him that he's just going to be next in line to be F'ed by ALPA and dereg!!

Let's face it - pilots like to whine. Some of it is just that - whining. But some of it is well-earned, well placed-criticism of "the system". I would like to think even the most ardent complainers are doing so to try to improve their lot in life, and hopefully improve things for those around them. I guess the bottom line is pilots, for the most part, are stuck between a company that would happily fly you to the FAA max and pay you the Fed min wage, and a union that would love for you to get paid huge sums of money for doing very little work. The "truth" is somewhere in the middle.

Also, as for the love of flying, I think most of us got into the business for that very reason, but food has to be put on the table, kids have to be sent to college, mortgages have to be paid. And "love of flying" won't cover any of those things.

Take a step back and look at what's happened to the industry over the past five years and I think you'll see why there's some bitterness out there. I, for one, know the things that lured me away from the military and into the airlines ("security" (ha!), pay, retirement package, schedule, upgrade ability) back in late 2000 are no longer there in any manner close to what they were. And very few of the young guys in the military (I'm back in and loving it!) facing the decision now to stay or go are considering the airlines - they've seen the train wreck and want no part of it.

To put it mildly, some new $hit has come to light, and it's not all good.

I'll answer this part and not even touch the bitter part.

In theory, 50% of new hire classes was supposed to be eagle flow throughs. This never actually happened and only a hand full of eagle pilots actually went to AA prior to being furloughed. The letter of agreement (letter 3) is due to expire fairly soon. With AA only recalling 10 per month, letter 3 will expire prior to any new hire classes being formed. Once letter 3 expires either a new agreement will be made or no flow through will exist (my bet is on the latter).

No kidding!!

Security? Don't bank on it for most situations.

Pay? Not significantly better on average. A 10 year USAF Captain, married, and on flight status will bring home a pretty good salary...somewhere around $81000. Them's not peanuts.

Retirement? Not that much there anymore. That same Captain who retires as a LtCol after a 20 year career will get $42000 a year...forever. And not have spent one dime for it. He'll be about 43 years old.

Schedule? All things said, it's likely the civvie route still wins here.

Upgrade? Guys in heavies upgrade to 'Captain' quicker in the military. Fighter/ IP guys were always Captains.

Gents:

Recalls are starting at 10/month in January, forecast to increase to 20-40/month later in the year. The number they are looking for is 200 pilots next year. Right now there is a 1 to 5 acceptance rate. The only ones that will probably definitely come back are the flow backs at Eagle.

As far as hiring goes, I think we'll get through the whole list in about 3 years max, and then hiring would start. FYI, total number on the street is down to 2835. I don't think there will be a problem recruiting pilots to work at AA, we still have decent work rules and a pretty good pay scale that will only get better with our next contract.

I've been here almost 7 years and am currently the junior "Native" on the property... and looking back, it's been a great place to work. Chiefs always give me the days off I need, paychecks never bounce, great route system and a variety of aircraft/schedules to choose. Yes it's got its problems just like any other airline but overall, a great place to work.

Welcome back to those furloughees who are coming back... you will get either MIA/737/D or LGA/S80/D. (P.s. choose the LGA/S80! :D )

73

you are clearly an idiot. Obviously you are not a pilot and are only a wannabee. This isn't the 1970's...kids no longer smile at airline pilots. And as for the dream: my husband lost his pension. Is that part of "the dream", you moronic idiot?:mad:

you are perfect for gojets.:rolleyes:

Easy Mama, he's probably not a moronic idiot, more likely just an ignorant kid. I hope he archives his statement and revisits it in 5 years - when he's still a regional FO with a wife and maybe a kid, spending 2/3 of his nights away from home, doing reduced rest overnights followed by long days, making less than $40k year - and I think he'll realize he did'nt really have the experience to make an informed statement. Yeah, we all got into it because we love to fly and that's great, but the job has a lot of negatives that just get worse as your life expands unless your seniority keeps pace!

Thanks swayzee for articulating that for me. Sorry to jump off the handle, but I just think that peops should at least get their feet wet in this bidness before they make judgements(i.e. thinking that we are all bitter). Thanks for being a voice of reason and putting a nice spin on my comments.:)

you're right, there was a time 15 years ago when I used to think like this "kid" and today I'm 180 degrees off that course.. Reality sets in when the mortgage statement comes in, the insurance bill, the kids medical bills, the IRA, the savings for college, and the wife's occasional visit to Nordstroms.. Life isn't as cheap as it used to be when I was an 24 year old CFI living at home with mom...

WOW!! Cry me a F#$@in river about your husband losing his pension! are you telling me that someone who was likely making 6 figures didn't think to invest any of that money? since dereg 100's of companies have gone bankrupt!! that's aviation!! At 40,000 a year i could still invest enough to live a good life down the road! do you sit at home and just ***** on message boards calling "kids" "moronic idiots"!! maybe that's your problem, you are blaming other people for your lack of planning and anger at OTHER PEOPLE "screwing" you!!!

To answer anyone elses questions im 21 1000/120, college degree and trying to figure out where i want to fly... you know what, I wouldn't care if i made 40,000 a year at 26 and i'm sorry you guys have such a problem with that... I work seven days a week and wouldn't mind working 4 days on making twice my cfi salary!!! how is it bad to have three days off a week!? I realize that pay sucks but thats why it's only the first few years and that how it has been for a long time, so deal with it or get going to another industry... Im not saying FO's dont deserve more but come one people! you can get with a good company with awesome upgrade times if you want! even a "moronic idiont" like myself could think of 10 airlines with awesome upgrade times and descent pay! quit complaining cause you have a bad contract with the company you are at!!! Go TO A NEW AIRLINE!!! try airlinepilotcentral.com i heard they show upgrade times!!!

Looks like we found one of the new Skybus pilot hires!

When he gets on he can even afford a new 10 speed and nintendo game.

You better hurry, Dad says the garbage needs to go out NOW.

oh.. what's become of the profession.... woe is me. :rolleyes:

Then why are you still working 7 days a week. Hey Tony, how many people can you put on one ignore list?

O no...... more from av8r4aa
 

This kid has a fairly good grasp on things! There are no guarantees
in life and certainly in this business.
I like the kids attitude. He says F-it I want to be a pilot.
He will make it in this business.
His expectations are low and expects nothing in return.

He just wants to fly planes for a living.
Rag on him as you will but you could learn something
from his decent overview of his ideas.

The rest of you saps that are overwelmed by enormous mortgages,
kids braces and a ol lady who spends , should have planned better.

Don't tell me that EVERY ONE of your parents didn't tell you to save
for the "rainy day" well folks that day is NOW

I see it all day long ....people are overextended.

As for the folks that are furloughed
I am sorry for your bad fortune. No one knew.

But the same cards dealt to Kangaroo kid he could bounce back
and keep going. I like this guy and if you don't too bad