Hey 1515greenlight,

When the magic goes "poof," and you are left staring at the mode control panel wondering which buttons to push and when the last time you actually had your hands on a set of flight controls outside the terminal airspace, your guard/reserve FO will calmly fly and talk on the radio (yes, at the same time) and think how much easier it is to to do this while not having to still coordinate a successfull end to a wartime mission. You see, most of us flew without any magic, with great success, and under the most stressfull of flight conditions, before having to watch guys like you depend on automation.

Normally I'm easy going, but you just begged for a face shot.

Me thinks you didn't smack him hard enough:eek:

I agree. Smack him again Silver. Naa, wait a minute, give the poor slug a break. Ya know, the funny thing with these ridiculous remarks/comments/debates is, the mil guys never seem to start them, but always seem to finish them. Usually in a professional manner as well I must add. ;)

I know! Because obviously a civilian pilot is completely incapable of flying raw data & talking on the radios:eek: at the same time.:rolleyes:

In case you forgot, us DeltaNorth boys got some DC9s, and they don't have any of that fancy RNAV stuff.

Normally I'm easy going too, but you just begged for a face shot as well. :rolleyes:

I respect military pilots. My father is retired AF. But come on man, it's a two way street.

You know, my thoughts exactly Rhino. I was going to mention that these things always come from the same source. I find myself singing the praises of my civilian trained DAL co-workers. Great pilots as a rule- and I've learned a lot from them. But, there's always the guy with something to prove........... my condolences to their crew.

Indeed...and exactly my point. My dad was AF too, and I have all the respect in the world for the guys who have been there. But after having been through the wringer on my own dime...as have many others; flown and flown with guys who operated low level IFR in crap that no military guy would have dreamed of, it get's a bit old hearing how nobody else can do it as well as a mil driver. Hell, it would have been a dream to have two functioning ILS's...and a fantasy if they were the same manufacturer...and decade!

Ask a Connie DC-8 driver. 26 DC-8's. 26 different cockpit configurations. PDI's. Going into South America. Or an old Henson BE-99 driver who flew a bird with a sticky ILS by the F/O's right knee. The old guys knew. The young one's didn't always catch on. 17 people died in a CFIT crash because of it. The company response? "That's what we pay insurance for." "Magic" was a VOR and an ADF...no autopilot and maybe working radar.

I don't worry about magic going poof. I hand fly to and from altitude and hand fly approaches unless we have to use the magic. Then again maybe it's easier since I don't fly ultralight 73's or light twin 76's...:rolleyes: I fly a 74-400.:cool: (relax...a little humor...)

And Rhino...as far as running off to the cockpit to fly in a strike? Careful junior...I have an Eastern Battle Star on my lapel. And 28 years.

Not one Eastern pilot got hired by your fine organization back then. Your guys just took our airplanes and routes...didn't see any DAL guys demanding that DAL hire Eastern pilots. You're welcome for the job we made available for you by providing the extra front seats.

Remember, this got cranked up over guys who felt an entitlement to their job and insinuated that others in the regional arena were lesser beings. Funny how you got your panties in a wad when someone dared to speak up. So Rhino...what were you doing in 1989?

The lesson? The only reason anyone is where they are is luck on the day HR decided who to hire and seniority. Other than that, we're all equal...blue collar working stiffs.

So if you don't want stones tossed at you, don't toss them yourself.

Someone resents being spanked as a child.

Neither of you guys are acting professional. Civilian, military... why don't all of you take your childish argument to some other thread. We are trying to discuss real problems here.

[quote=1515greenlight;563071]flown with guys who operated low level IFR in crap that no military guy would have dreamed of, quote]

I guess my fixed card ADF , suction powered instruments, military aircraft approach into Colorado Springs during a snow storm doesn't count. :eek:

There is an old expresion that RNs use: remember 50% of the Drs you work with graduated in the lower half of their class. The same applies to pilots - both civilian and military trained.

Eastern Battle................ That sounds dangerous.

The only medals Rhino and I are authorized to wear were just earned flying in combat. Just being shot at or over places where being captured and tortured was a little more of a concern than a merger.

So please greenlight,

tell us military guys more about Battle Stars on your lapel and what it's like to have guys die in the cockpit. And then, call us junior again and tell wild and crazy stories about low level IFR and ILS's to a guy who landed on a ship at night or who had to cross several continents above 70,000 feet with no electrics and between countries wanting to kill him. Please, educate us on what it's like to be airborne and in harms way......