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Old 02-12-2009, 05:03 AM   #1  
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Exclamation DAL In-House Union?

There has been general discussion before concerning the de-certification of ALPA and the formation of an in-house union at various majors due to the inherent conflict in interest (Scope) of serving the needs of the legacy carriers as well of the feeders. Every action National takes is compromised by the need to serve the interests of groups with widely disparate needs, and in the process waters down it's product to the point of irrelevance. It's most notable achievements these days are it's monthly glossy self-promoting infomercial and fund raising to perpetuate itself.

DALPA is the 800 pound Gorilla in ALPA with close to 12000 dues paying members. It has the talent and the manpower to effectively duplicate almost every previously noteworthy ALPA function while better serving the needs of it's members far more efficiently and effectively for the same or less dues.

The recent Grievance Settlement over 76 seater's, while not attributable to ALPA National, serves to highlight the need for an aggressive position that serves the interests of DAL pilots, free from the influence of not-offending or conflicting with the interests of ALPA represented feeders.

DAL has enough pilots, similar to APA, where we can be highly effective as an independent union. Either National needs to start going back to it's roots of defending the profession instead of diluting it, or we should seriously consider striking out on our own. I see no way that National could or would encourage the feeders to leave. The feeders know they are better served by being part of ALPA and undermining from within with arguments of DFR than being independent, and Herndon is too addicted to the dues and highly paid Prez, EVP, and staff positions they support.

Not so DALPA.

Discuss......
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:13 AM   #2  
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Why not just be like JB and have NO union.

Management would make your best interests their priority. Right?


AL
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:14 AM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly4hire View Post
There has been general discussion before concerning the de-certification of ALPA and the formation of an in-house union at various majors due to the inherent conflict in interest (Scope) of serving the needs of the legacy carriers as well of the feeders. Every action National takes is compromised by the need to serve the interests of groups with widely disparate needs, and in the process waters down it's product to the point of irrelevance. It's most notable achievements these days are it's monthly glossy self-promoting infomercial and fund raising to perpetuate itself.

DALPA is the 800 pound Gorilla in ALPA with close to 12000 dues paying members. It has the talent and the manpower to effectively duplicate almost every previously noteworthy ALPA function while better serving the needs of it's members far more efficiently and with better cost effectiveness.

The recent Grievance Settlement over 76 seater's, while not attributable to ALPA National, serves to highlight the need for an aggressive position that serves the interests of DAL pilots, free from the influence of not-offending or conflicting with the interests of ALPA represented feeders.

DAL has enough pilots, similar to APA, where we can be highly effective as an independent union. Either National needs to start going back to it's roots of defending the profession instead of watering it down, or we should seriously consider striking out on our own. I see no way that National could or would encourage the feeders to leave. The feeders know they are better served by being part of ALPA and undermining from within than being independent.

Not so DALPA. Discuss......
Not being all that knowledgeable with scope, I think that eventually ALPA National cannot sufficiently represent both Mainline and Regional Companies without stepping over certain boundaries. The growth of mainline will hinder the growth at regionals, and vice versa.

I think scope should have been the line drawn in the sand a long time ago that distinguished the difference between Mainline Flying and Regional Flying. That line, in my opinion, should have been drawn by ALPA National, set in concrete, and non-negotiable within separate union groups.

On a sidenote, if standards at the regionals were raised in terms of Contracts, Work Rules, QOL, and salaries then the whole scope controversy would probably not be as big as an issue. I say that because it comes down to nickels and cents, if it's gonna cost mainline the same amount to build their regional subsidaries as it did to expand mainline flying it would be a mute point.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:14 AM   #4  
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It is about time someone decided to post that idea. An in-house union would best represent all delta pilots. What has ALPA done for you? Let's see age 65, when more then half of its members when polled didn't want it. Whipsawing at the regional level. To mention a few. Although ALPA has a great safety program, you don't need to be part of it to get it. Also, has anyone seen the new SWA contract, I for one have NOT. However, I told of pay raises and other bonuses. SWA has its own union, AA has theirs, so why not us. I say we take a poll. I would love nothing more to see the "machine" or the "man" known as ALPA off my paystub. OUT
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:24 AM   #5  
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So what happens when the senior pilot leadership of the new in-house union (which very well may be similar to the current leadership) decides to sell scope again? You gonna decertify the newly certified union?

Sorry, I'm not in the airline game anymore so its not really my sandbox, but everybody gets SO angry and immediately points their finger toward "ALPA" when its a failure of union leadership that's the problem, not the union itself. After all, a "union" is, by default, a collective of employees negotiating together in UNITY.

...and its hard to have any semblance of a real union without any real unity, be it at the local or national level.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:36 AM   #6  
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So what happens when the senior pilot leadership of the new in-house union (which very well may be similar to the current leadership) decides to sell scope again? You gonna decertify the newly certified union?
Always a danger, however new elections have to be held for every Officer and LEC position. If anger over Scope erosion is sufficient to get rid of ALPA and form an in-house chances are elections will favor Officers/Reps that have a harder line towards Scope. No payoff without risk, but what we have now is not working in Legacy pilots best interests.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:14 AM   #7  
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Originally Posted by Fly4hire
what we have now is not working in Legacy pilots best interests.
Funny...most regional pilots feel the exact same way about ALPA.

So legacy pilots think ALPA National is representing the interests of regional pilots more, while regional pilots think ALPA National is representing the interests of legacy/major pilots more.

I think the "answer" to questions about fair representation across the various levels of airlines lies in further exploration of the above contradiction.
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:23 AM   #8  
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My persoanl opinion is that without DALPA, ALPA fails. Period.
It is a good threat, and one that need to be taken to the national level.
Not sure if it is the best answer, but it is one that should be put on the table. That said, with these two groups not unified, a throwing out of ALL of the LEC reps and a new election of MEC officers, my solve you issue. Fact is that you get to live with what they have done, even with a new union!
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:25 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly4hire View Post
There has been general discussion before concerning the de-certification of ALPA and the formation of an in-house union at various majors due to the inherent conflict in interest (Scope) of serving the needs of the legacy carriers as well of the feeders. Every action National takes is compromised by the need to serve the interests of groups with widely disparate needs, and in the process waters down it's product to the point of irrelevance. It's most notable achievements these days are it's monthly glossy self-promoting infomercial and fund raising to perpetuate itself.

DALPA is the 800 pound Gorilla in ALPA with close to 12000 dues paying members. It has the talent and the manpower to effectively duplicate almost every previously noteworthy ALPA function while better serving the needs of it's members far more efficiently and effectively for the same or less dues.

The recent Grievance Settlement over 76 seater's, while not attributable to ALPA National, serves to highlight the need for an aggressive position that serves the interests of DAL pilots, free from the influence of not-offending or conflicting with the interests of ALPA represented feeders.

DAL has enough pilots, similar to APA, where we can be highly effective as an independent union. Either National needs to start going back to it's roots of defending the profession instead of diluting it, or we should seriously consider striking out on our own. I see no way that National could or would encourage the feeders to leave. The feeders know they are better served by being part of ALPA and undermining from within with arguments of DFR than being independent, and Herndon is too addicted to the dues and highly paid Prez, EVP, and staff positions they support.

Not so DALPA.

Discuss......
I think if alpa won't stand up and stop the outsourcing of our careers than this idea is defitly something that needs to be looked into. Alpa has become to much of a business and not enough of a union. I am not a alpa hater either, I just think their interests have swayed elsewhere. "taking it back"
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:28 AM   #10  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot View Post
My persoanl opinion is that without DALPA, ALPA fails. Period.
It is a good threat, and one that need to be taken to the national level.
Not sure if it is the best answer, but it is one that should be put on the table. That said, with these two groups not unified, a throwing out of ALL of the LEC reps and a new election of MEC officers, my solve you issue. Fact is that you get to live with what they have done, even with a new union!
Agreed!! !
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