Adolphus Coors

I have worked at 2 ALPA carriers and 1 in house carrier and I would say by far my experience with the in house union was much better. We had a ton of money since all our dues went to our union not mostly to the national union. We also were organized in a way that the membership felt like it could invoke change without going through a "board of directors style" leadership team. I guess it is similar to our political system. Do you feel the state government best represents you or do you feel one centeralized federal government best represents you. Do you feel like you have more of a say in a local government or in Washington?

Bucking Bar

..........

JetFlyer06

I agree, it's interesting to hear the argument from a "mainline" carrier's side. When I was at a regional a lot of us thought that ALPA was protecting the mainline and we got whatever scraps were leftover. We weren't big enough (read: paying enough dues) to really matter to them. That being said, maybe it is time for a changing of the guard. I'm not necessarily advocating a removal of ALPA but we could certainly elect new reps and with 12,000+ pilots I'm sure we could make our voice heard at ALPA national. The new DAL will by far be ALPA's largest revenue stream and when they hear these rumblings of an in-house union drive I'm sure they would stand up and take notice.

There are a lot of things wrong with ALPA, but there are a lot of things right as well. I've known several people who went through the accident investigation/response training and they have everything good to say about it. I can personally ouch for their Aeromedical division and the decades of experience they possess. Believe me, when you have a medical issue (and most of us will at some point in our careers) you want someone on your side who knows what they are doing and has been there before.

In my opinion, ALPA has a place at DAL going forward and right now they are best suited to represent us both personally and professionally. If you feel strongly about an issue, call your reps and let them know. Far too many people complain on the line and never bother to pick up the phone and make a simple call. I do agree we need to protect scope diligently (look at SWA) since it is our livelihood. The line between regional and mainline aircraft has blurred to the point of non-existence. I hope in the future that ALPA will step up and get us the scope reform we deperately need. If they dont, who knows?

Fly4hire

There is no solution that does not erode mainline flying in either quantity or pay in the name of "fair".

Feeder carriers need their own union, Mainline theirs.

BoilerUP

You say this as though regional pilots WANT mainline to shrink, when nothing could be further from the truth!

Regional pilots WANT legacy pilots to quit selling scope and giving away increasingly larger "small jets", but if those airframes are sold by legacy pilots (as they have and continue to be) then can you really fault regional pilots for wanting to be the ones flying them?

There is PLENTY of room for a happy middle ground via negotiation and bridge-building, allowing for job protections and career advancement for pilots regardless of what size airplane they are currently flying.

TheDashRocks

If the decision that has raised so much ire is not attributable to ALPA National, what is the guarantee that a DAL in-house union would not make the same agreement?

I am a regional pilot and an ALPA member. I believe in unions and want mine to be as large and powerful as possible. Further fragmentation of my union would rob it of political power and resources.

My understanding is that each pilot group negotiates its own contract with the support and advice of the national office. It does not seem to me that this structure is designed to force mainline pilot groups to enter into agreements that hurt themselves and benefit regional pilots.

I think that in the minds of too many pilots, ALPA is just another remote, blundering, ineffective organization much like many airline management groups. Times are tough and most of us are worried. It is natural to lash out at any authority figures like CEO's and union leaders. We may ask ourselves, "if ALPA cannot prevent furloughs, what good is it?" During this tough economy, ALPA and non-ALPA pilot groups have made concessionary argreements to try and keep their employers financially viable. No one likes pay cuts or less time off, but is ALPA to blame?

The airline industry has evolved to a point where regional pilots are flying jets carrying as many passengers as mainliners used to. It would be an interesting exercise to look back in time and figure out where our union zigged when it should have zagged to avoid arriving at this current state. That would not change the fact that we are here and we need to figure out how to move ahead effectively for all pilots.

Regional pilots hear of the change to the DAL scope clause and drool about the possibility of more flying. USAirways pilots explode over a seniority issue and place more financial pressure on a struggling employer. Mainline pilots oppose agreements placing regional pilots on their seniority list. All of this must stop or we will continue to slash at each other while the man laughs.

What pilots need now more than anything is unity; common cause and shared sacrifice. We cannot let fear drive us further apart. Any of us lucky to be in a secure position at a healthy carrier must still be concerned about fellow pilots being furloughed or laid off.

The best union solution to the current regional versus mainline conundrum is to make the ties between the pilot groups closer. In the past most "flow through" agreements have been one way. Mainline pilots could flow down to the regional rather than be furloughed, but regional pilots could not be placed on the mainline seniority list. These agreements should work both ways and there should be more of them. Mainline pilots and pilots of affiliated regionals should negotiate contracts together. Raising the floor of pay and work rules would benefit the profession as a whole. Then perhaps, one day regional jets will be flown by pilots paid a salary between current regional and mainline pay.

We need to begin work on a national contract for all pilots, regional and mainline. Pay rates should be specified from the BE-1900 to the A380. Pay and work rules should be uniform for all union airlines. We need to stop competing with each other to see who will fly more days for less pay.

TheDashRocks

CEO's love state and local governments because their officials are cheaper to bribe.

ToiletDuck

DAL is big enough where in-house could seriously work. Management nightmare even thinking about being able to short change that many people and finding someone else to fly it. I love it! Would be nice to ALPA get it handed to them. Though it wouldn't make much difference if you kept the same MEC.

BoilerUP

Why do you say that?

TheDashRocks

There are solutions that work for everyone. The regional and mainline pilot groups must be more closely linked together. Joint labor agreements could increase furlough and scope protection for mainline pilots while establishing clear career progression, work rule improvement, and pay increases for regional pilots.