Don't know about you, but as far as I see it we are on the same team, working under the same rules and, for the same cause for the same company. A management team going against a crew of 34.000... Yeah, I really see it as all good. I don't know if it ever has been tried out but why not think outside the box? I also believe that if a customer buys a Delta ticket to fly on a Delta airplane, she or he should be served by Delta customer service reps AND Delta crew. I.o.w. the solution to the scope is to have no scope at all but to have the entire crew flying the Delta colors under one umbrella. Really !

 

F/As at one time were in ALPA. About the time the jumbo jets came along it became obvious with the staffing levels (10 F/As vs. 3 pilots) that they would be in control of ALPA and it would cease to be a union (association) representing pilots.

Is that what you want? A flight attendant as the leader of ALPA? This rates, IMO, as the single worst idea I've seen on this forum!

You've obviously got problems within ALPA, but this is NOT the solution.

 

Well it's quickly becoming a union that is representing regional airline pilots at the expense of mainline pilots. Does anyone know how many regional pilots ALPA represents vs. how many mainline pilots they represent? I think since UsAir is gone, they now represent more regional guys.

 

How about thinking outside the box and look at it in a perspective that we have a union that works for crew members? Think about it, if they strike we are without a job anyway. Neither do I think there is a flight attendant out there that even assume that they will ever get our pay or that the FAA will change the rules to prevent them from operations like we have today. We simply unionize and have a clause that Pilots ALWAYS will have majority on the votes. No I have not worked out all the details and yes there will always be some that is against everything regardless of what you suggest. Compared to what we have today, it MIGHT be a good solution for all involved if we look at the opportunities and not the problems, while at the same time try to solve the issues that may or may not be there.

 

I like the idea of getting some junior reps in the Union and considering getting out of alpa and just going it on our own. FA's in the pilot union? I would vote no. I see no advantage and only problems.

Crew rest. I bet you that the condos would now be FA's also.
Crew rest seats. They would own those seats near us.
Pay. Would they go to bat for our pay? I am guessing no.
The fact is, pilots and FA's are very different. You do not need years of training and experience to get hired on as an FA.

This is just my opinion.

Slinky

 

Of course, the F/As will just jump at the chance to join a union where their voices and concerns would be determined by pilots. Not gonna happen.

Having said that, your "thinking out of the box" concept has great merit, but put the shoe on the other foot - would you really want to be part of a union where another employee group, with different priorities and goals, controls your working conditions and pay?

When I was still in ALPA I worked as part of a local union coalition, and the differences and needs of each group were simply to much to really overcome. We met - we talked - and at best we hoped the other "partners" would at least understand why each group had differing outlooks, opinions and goals. (A two way street, I might add.)

IMO you should dump this "all in one box" idea, but certainly keep plugging away by thinking outside of the box!

 

I see where you are coming from, but there are issues with this. Like a previous poster said. The FA's have strength in number. Most of em hate us anyway, and would more than likely go out of their way to burn us if given the chance.
Fact is that 85% of what we spend millions on fighting for in our contracts is just given to them. They got a better deal now anyway.

 

That and waste negotiating capitol on the height of shoe heels and layover hotel proximity to good shopping - no thanks

 

I still haven't figured out why having FAs in our association would be beneficial for us? FAs and Pilots are apples and oranges. As far as I am concerned FAs should sign a 5 year contract and be paid on 1099s. Maybe I'm an A hole, but I want to protect our brand at all costs!

 

Why don't we all use our energies to fight this scope cave-in, instead of wasting a single brain cell on something that will never happen.

Carl