DAL In-House Union?
02-18-2009 | 07:40 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: 73N CA
Flying fighters in the Navy has most definitely made me a better airline pilot. Fighters are much more complex pieces of machinery. They fly twice as fast, just as high, and often 100FT off the deck at 600KTS. We fly complex missions requiring countless hours and experience to plan and execute. We takeoff, fly from point A to B (or A), come back and land, and then go home to our family (if we're lucky enough). Hmm, sound familiar? The difference is what we do after takeoff and before we land. We continually train in the most demanding environment in aviation...PERIOD!
You're never just a "squadron pilot." You've never finally "made it" where you can sit back and coast on easy street. You're CONTINUOUSLY training or teaching throughout your entire career. We do fly from A to B. When I'm coming into the overhead at 400KTS, I'm still taking notes about the BFM mission I just executed, so I can give the young aviator the best instruction and debrief that I can give. I roll out on final at 400FT and 3/4 of a mile, put my notes away, call the ball, and land the jet (on a ship with *******y winds and a landing strip 400x60).
Again, this isn't a mil v civ bebate. I really get p***ed though when some idiot tries to question how flying in the military (fighters in this case) can tranlate into flying in the airline world. It's all about experiences, confidence, ability, airmanship and SA (situational awareness). I will put any of my experiences and all of my training up against yours anytime, anyplace, and anywhere.
Flying fighters has most definitely made me a better aviator. But I'm still not going to say I'm better than you and all the regional airline training you have received flying A to B, 90% of which was on autopilot. You may very well be the best pilot in aviation, but don't you dare question my abilities or my experiences as they relate to the airline world. I assure you, they're quite relevant. Ask the hiring department.
02-18-2009 | 07:54 AM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
Likes: 0
From: right for a long, long time
I don't feel like taking up another page to debate this issue again, but I will respond to one of your remarks.
Flying fighters in the Navy has most definitely made me a better airline pilot. Fighters are much more complex pieces of machinery. They fly twice as fast, just as high, and often 100FT off the deck at 600KTS. We fly complex missions requiring countless hours and experience to plan and execute. We takeoff, fly from point A to B (or A), come back and land, and then go home to our family (if we're lucky enough). Hmm, sound familiar? The difference is what we do after takeoff and before we land. We continually train in the most demanding environment in aviation...PERIOD!
You're never just a "squadron pilot." You've never finally "made it" where you can sit back and coast on easy street. You're CONTINUOUSLY training or teaching throughout your entire career. We do fly from A to B. When I'm coming into the overhead at 400KTS, I'm still taking notes about the BFM mission I just executed, so I can give the young aviator the best instruction and debrief that I can give. I roll out on final at 400FT and 3/4 of a mile, put my notes away, call the ball, and land the jet (on a ship with *******y winds and a landing strip 400x60).
Again, this isn't a mil v civ bebate. I really get p***ed though when some idiot tries to question how flying in the military (fighters in this case) can tranlate into flying in the airline world. It's all about experiences, confidence, ability, airmanship and SA (situational awareness). I will put any of my experiences and all of my training up against yours anytime, anyplace, and anywhere.
Flying fighters has most definitely made me a better aviator. But I'm still not going to say I'm better than you and all the regional airline training you have received flying A to B, 90% of which was on autopilot. You may very well be the best pilot in aviation, but don't you dare question my abilities or my experiences as they relate to the airline world. I assure you, they're quite relevant. Ask the hiring department.
Flying fighters in the Navy has most definitely made me a better airline pilot. Fighters are much more complex pieces of machinery. They fly twice as fast, just as high, and often 100FT off the deck at 600KTS. We fly complex missions requiring countless hours and experience to plan and execute. We takeoff, fly from point A to B (or A), come back and land, and then go home to our family (if we're lucky enough). Hmm, sound familiar? The difference is what we do after takeoff and before we land. We continually train in the most demanding environment in aviation...PERIOD!
You're never just a "squadron pilot." You've never finally "made it" where you can sit back and coast on easy street. You're CONTINUOUSLY training or teaching throughout your entire career. We do fly from A to B. When I'm coming into the overhead at 400KTS, I'm still taking notes about the BFM mission I just executed, so I can give the young aviator the best instruction and debrief that I can give. I roll out on final at 400FT and 3/4 of a mile, put my notes away, call the ball, and land the jet (on a ship with *******y winds and a landing strip 400x60).
Again, this isn't a mil v civ bebate. I really get p***ed though when some idiot tries to question how flying in the military (fighters in this case) can tranlate into flying in the airline world. It's all about experiences, confidence, ability, airmanship and SA (situational awareness). I will put any of my experiences and all of my training up against yours anytime, anyplace, and anywhere.
Flying fighters has most definitely made me a better aviator. But I'm still not going to say I'm better than you and all the regional airline training you have received flying A to B, 90% of which was on autopilot. You may very well be the best pilot in aviation, but don't you dare question my abilities or my experiences as they relate to the airline world. I assure you, they're quite relevant. Ask the hiring department.
I am glad for my time in the service and I am glad you did yours, but let's not let that cloud our perspective.
Get off the high horse. Both are all well trained pilots and BOTH routes bring different skills and types of experience to the table that are beneficial to safety.
02-18-2009 | 08:16 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: 73N CA
I have a suggestion for every regional pilot out there and I want every major airline pilot to get out there and help them out. Let's talk upcoming negotiations. We're going to do this together. I have to make a few assumptions though, and this is definitely open for debate.
First, I'm assuming that the majority (not all) of regional pilots hope to one day get hired by a major airline. You're looking for a better QOL, better work rules, duty rigs, and our course, better pay. We're (major airline pilots) looking for the same things. Make them better at the major carriers, and one day you will reap the rewards.
Secondly, I'm assuming that you're looking for help from the major airline pilots (ALPA ones that is) because we're all in the same union and should be fighting for each other. True brotherhood!
Ok. This is the DAL In-House Union thread and there have been many good post about getting involved. Numerous suggestions have been made on here and I'm hoping everyone is contacting their Reps and letting them know how they feel.
We (major airline pilots) want to take our flying back. We want our routes back. We want our pay back. The regional guys claim to want this as well because it will someday increase their QOL, etc.
Starting now, we're working on 2012 negotiations. I have posted that I think we should be striving to get anything over 50 seats and greater than 300NM back to mainline. Mainline guys will work on this, and this is just a starting point. Give or take a few miles, maybe even start with over 70 seats. That's why we're debating it here.
Regional guys, we need your help! We need you to REFUSE to fly anything over 300NM and anything larger than 50 seats. Contact your Reps and let them know how you feel. Let them know how tired you are of the mainline guys giving up on scope and how you want all that flying that has come to the regionals the last 10 years to go back to mainline. This is your duty. We really need your help. This will ultimately be a benefit to all of us.
Also, negotiate a common pay scale amoungst all the regional carriers. This will help curb the whipsawing and cutthroat fighting among you. This will benefit the guys coming to the regionals in the future and will help promote job security.
We can work together to make it better for all of us in the future. The ball is on the court and it's time to sink the 3 pointer. Stop the infighting. Work together. Let's show true brotherhood and help this industy and profession get back on it's feet.
02-18-2009 | 08:18 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: 73N CA
Awesome....Is that why more guys in my class and the one before mine had MIL guys require extra sessions and none of the CIV ones needed extra help?
I am glad for my time in the service and I am glad you did yours, but let's not let that cloud our perspective.
Get off the high horse. Both are all well trained pilots and BOTH routes bring different skills and types of experience to the table that are beneficial to safety.
I am glad for my time in the service and I am glad you did yours, but let's not let that cloud our perspective.
Get off the high horse. Both are all well trained pilots and BOTH routes bring different skills and types of experience to the table that are beneficial to safety.
Extra training sessions can happen to anyone, even the most senior aviators. And I wasn't on a high horse, I was simply commenting on a stupid remark made by Dash.
02-18-2009 | 08:23 AM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
From: Dismayed
I don't feel like taking up another page to debate this issue again, but I will respond to one of your remarks.
Flying fighters in the Navy has most definitely made me a better airline pilot. Fighters are much more complex pieces of machinery. They fly twice as fast, just as high, and often 100FT off the deck at 600KTS. We fly complex missions requiring countless hours and experience to plan and execute. We takeoff, fly from point A to B (or A), come back and land, and then go home to our family (if we're lucky enough). Hmm, sound familiar? The difference is what we do after takeoff and before we land. We continually train in the most demanding environment in aviation...PERIOD!
You're never just a "squadron pilot." You've never finally "made it" where you can sit back and coast on easy street. You're CONTINUOUSLY training or teaching throughout your entire career. We do fly from A to B. When I'm coming into the overhead at 400KTS, I'm still taking notes about the BFM mission I just executed, so I can give the young aviator the best instruction and debrief that I can give. I roll out on final at 400FT and 3/4 of a mile, put my notes away, call the ball, and land the jet (on a ship with *******y winds and a landing strip 400x60).
Again, this isn't a mil v civ bebate. I really get p***ed though when some idiot tries to question how flying in the military (fighters in this case) can tranlate into flying in the airline world. It's all about experiences, confidence, ability, airmanship and SA (situational awareness). I will put any of my experiences and all of my training up against yours anytime, anyplace, and anywhere.
Flying fighters has most definitely made me a better aviator. But I'm still not going to say I'm better than you and all the regional airline training you have received flying A to B, 90% of which was on autopilot. You may very well be the best pilot in aviation, but don't you dare question my abilities or my experiences as they relate to the airline world. I assure you, they're quite relevant. Ask the hiring department.
Flying fighters in the Navy has most definitely made me a better airline pilot. Fighters are much more complex pieces of machinery. They fly twice as fast, just as high, and often 100FT off the deck at 600KTS. We fly complex missions requiring countless hours and experience to plan and execute. We takeoff, fly from point A to B (or A), come back and land, and then go home to our family (if we're lucky enough). Hmm, sound familiar? The difference is what we do after takeoff and before we land. We continually train in the most demanding environment in aviation...PERIOD!
You're never just a "squadron pilot." You've never finally "made it" where you can sit back and coast on easy street. You're CONTINUOUSLY training or teaching throughout your entire career. We do fly from A to B. When I'm coming into the overhead at 400KTS, I'm still taking notes about the BFM mission I just executed, so I can give the young aviator the best instruction and debrief that I can give. I roll out on final at 400FT and 3/4 of a mile, put my notes away, call the ball, and land the jet (on a ship with *******y winds and a landing strip 400x60).
Again, this isn't a mil v civ bebate. I really get p***ed though when some idiot tries to question how flying in the military (fighters in this case) can tranlate into flying in the airline world. It's all about experiences, confidence, ability, airmanship and SA (situational awareness). I will put any of my experiences and all of my training up against yours anytime, anyplace, and anywhere.
Flying fighters has most definitely made me a better aviator. But I'm still not going to say I'm better than you and all the regional airline training you have received flying A to B, 90% of which was on autopilot. You may very well be the best pilot in aviation, but don't you dare question my abilities or my experiences as they relate to the airline world. I assure you, they're quite relevant. Ask the hiring department.
02-18-2009 | 08:31 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,105
Likes: 100
Heyas,
Like the others have said...the lawn boy has skinned the grass one too many times and broke the garden gnome, so we're going to start doing the lawn ourselves. The lawn boy was a cute kid, and it sucks to let him go, but times are tough all over.
The good news is that there are urine samples to be flown, so it's not a total loss.
Nu
Like the others have said...the lawn boy has skinned the grass one too many times and broke the garden gnome, so we're going to start doing the lawn ourselves. The lawn boy was a cute kid, and it sucks to let him go, but times are tough all over.
The good news is that there are urine samples to be flown, so it's not a total loss.
Nu
02-18-2009 | 08:38 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,203
Likes: 53
From: Legacy FO
Take it however you want. You want to work together as a union, ok. I'm game. Why don't you stop complaining about scope and do something about it. You accuse the major pilots of giving it all away. It's all our fault. Fine.
I have a suggestion for every regional pilot out there and I want every major airline pilot to get out there and help them out. Let's talk upcoming negotiations. We're going to do this together. I have to make a few assumptions though, and this is definitely open for debate.
First, I'm assuming that the majority (not all) of regional pilots hope to one day get hired by a major airline. You're looking for a better QOL, better work rules, duty rigs, and our course, better pay. We're (major airline pilots) looking for the same things. Make them better at the major carriers, and one day you will reap the rewards.
Secondly, I'm assuming that you're looking for help from the major airline pilots (ALPA ones that is) because we're all in the same union and should be fighting for each other. True brotherhood!
Ok. This is the DAL In-House Union thread and there have been many good post about getting involved. Numerous suggestions have been made on here and I'm hoping everyone is contacting their Reps and letting them know how they feel.
We (major airline pilots) want to take our flying back. We want our routes back. We want our pay back. The regional guys claim to want this as well because it will someday increase their QOL, etc.
Starting now, we're working on 2012 negotiations. I have posted that I think we should be striving to get anything over 50 seats and greater than 300NM back to mainline. Mainline guys will work on this, and this is just a starting point. Give or take a few miles, maybe even start with over 70 seats. That's why we're debating it here.
Regional guys, we need your help! We need you to REFUSE to fly anything over 300NM and anything larger than 50 seats. Contact your Reps and let them know how you feel. Let them know how tired you are of the mainline guys giving up on scope and how you want all that flying that has come to the regionals the last 10 years to go back to mainline. This is your duty. We really need your help. This will ultimately be a benefit to all of us.
Also, negotiate a common pay scale amoungst all the regional carriers. This will help curb the whipsawing and cutthroat fighting among you. This will benefit the guys coming to the regionals in the future and will help promote job security.
We can work together to make it better for all of us in the future. The ball is on the court and it's time to sink the 3 pointer. Stop the infighting. Work together. Let's show true brotherhood and help this industy and profession get back on it's feet.
I have a suggestion for every regional pilot out there and I want every major airline pilot to get out there and help them out. Let's talk upcoming negotiations. We're going to do this together. I have to make a few assumptions though, and this is definitely open for debate.
First, I'm assuming that the majority (not all) of regional pilots hope to one day get hired by a major airline. You're looking for a better QOL, better work rules, duty rigs, and our course, better pay. We're (major airline pilots) looking for the same things. Make them better at the major carriers, and one day you will reap the rewards.
Secondly, I'm assuming that you're looking for help from the major airline pilots (ALPA ones that is) because we're all in the same union and should be fighting for each other. True brotherhood!
Ok. This is the DAL In-House Union thread and there have been many good post about getting involved. Numerous suggestions have been made on here and I'm hoping everyone is contacting their Reps and letting them know how they feel.
We (major airline pilots) want to take our flying back. We want our routes back. We want our pay back. The regional guys claim to want this as well because it will someday increase their QOL, etc.
Starting now, we're working on 2012 negotiations. I have posted that I think we should be striving to get anything over 50 seats and greater than 300NM back to mainline. Mainline guys will work on this, and this is just a starting point. Give or take a few miles, maybe even start with over 70 seats. That's why we're debating it here.
Regional guys, we need your help! We need you to REFUSE to fly anything over 300NM and anything larger than 50 seats. Contact your Reps and let them know how you feel. Let them know how tired you are of the mainline guys giving up on scope and how you want all that flying that has come to the regionals the last 10 years to go back to mainline. This is your duty. We really need your help. This will ultimately be a benefit to all of us.
Also, negotiate a common pay scale amoungst all the regional carriers. This will help curb the whipsawing and cutthroat fighting among you. This will benefit the guys coming to the regionals in the future and will help promote job security.
We can work together to make it better for all of us in the future. The ball is on the court and it's time to sink the 3 pointer. Stop the infighting. Work together. Let's show true brotherhood and help this industy and profession get back on it's feet.
My internet experience has come full circle today. It started with this video and now Rhino's comment. I'm loving it.
MYWARVIDEO.COM Lazy Iraqi Police get motivational speech
-Fatty
02-18-2009 | 09:14 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
From: 73N CA
That video is awesome!
Regional guys, you are the Iraqi Police. Quit your freaking whining and get out there and do something about it. Are you fighting for your profession (macro) or are you hiding in the corners waiting for someone else to do it for you. Enough of this *******! TAKE IT BACK! We're here to help on our end, now reference the above post and go do your duty to help this profession get back on its feet. Everything CAN NOT come from the top.
Regional guys, you are the Iraqi Police. Quit your freaking whining and get out there and do something about it. Are you fighting for your profession (macro) or are you hiding in the corners waiting for someone else to do it for you. Enough of this *******! TAKE IT BACK! We're here to help on our end, now reference the above post and go do your duty to help this profession get back on its feet. Everything CAN NOT come from the top.
02-18-2009 | 11:50 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: DHC-8 CA Furloughed
...this isn't a mil v civ bebate. I really get p***ed though when some idiot tries to question how flying in the military (fighters in this case) can tranlate into flying in the airline world. It's all about experiences, confidence, ability, airmanship and SA (situational awareness). I will put any of my experiences and all of my training up against yours anytime, anyplace, and anywhere.
I will absolutely answer that challenge. I can sex up a discription of what I have done just as you have stressed the drama and excitement of flying a fighter. Flying night circling approaches into mountain airports in a large turboprop part 121 airliner is at least as good a preparation for major airline flying as dropping bombs and the other things that you have done in a tactical aircraft.
...I'm still not going to say I'm better than you and all the regional airline training you have received flying A to B, 90% of which was on autopilot.
You won't say you are better but you will still be snide.
...don't you dare question my abilities or my experiences as they relate to the airline world. I assure you, they're quite relevant. Ask the hiring department.
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