Sullenberger Article
 

Captain Sullenberger made several comments in his article that I would like to highlight:

Sullenberger is uncharacteristically worried. He's worried that when it comes to the bank of experience for airline pilots, there may someday be a significant shortage.

He goes on to suggest that the reduction in percentage of military pilots means that the industry is at risk since of course military pilots are the best. Everyone likes to think that their background is the best way to become an airline pilot. I personally think that everyone should have bush pilot experience. In his case I bet that others might think that everyone should have a glider background.

My guess is that military pilots are increasingly choosing to make the military their entire aviation career and do not necessarily move on to the airlines upon retirement.

Here is another one from Capt. James Ray of the U.S. Airline Pilots Association. "Twenty years ago, the average airline pilot would maybe work, oh, 70 to 80 hours, about three times a month. Now, that pilot's working 70 to 80 hours every week".

Sully stated:

"I know some of our pilots, who have been laid off, have chosen not to return," Sullenberger said. "I can speak personally, for me and my family, that my decision to remain in this profession that I love has come at a cost to me and my family."

I agree; Pilots today have to work too much. When you add post 911 complications to commuting the results are a significant loss in the amount of quality time at home. In addition, in order to make a living many pilots choose to sell their vacations and days off to the company to supplement their income.

Here is my favorite from Sully.

"I don't know a single professional pilot who would recommend that their children follow in their footsteps"

Someone posted on the closed site that an estimate of Sullys income was around $108,000 before taxes and expenses. After four decades of sacrifice and effort 108K is not nearly enough from my perspective. US Air pilots in the early 1980's made between three and four times more then they do now.

The last Sully thread was closed because it was supposedly off topic. I don't think it was at all. Captain Sullenberger was voicing a protest on the Today show. He is right that the profession has lost a lot and he wants everyone to know it. I share in that mission. However, I do not think that there is anything that can be done other than to accept the fate of our profession and strive to adapt to it or get out.

Skyhigh

Wow........I'd really have to disagree with him on that statement. I've flown in both the military and civilian and seen incredibly talented pilots from both sides. I've seen some incredibly horrible pilots from both sides too. The military is not for everyone, and neither is flying, but to say one is better than the other is not right in my opinion. Some pilots just take more pride in what they do, and therefore they always seem to be better at what they do. It's that way in every profession. The military now requires a ten year commitment after pilot training, so by the time your "dues are up", you've got almost 11 years spent in a profession that requires only 20 to receive a nice pension. Hard to give up such a good chunk of change at that point. (Hence the Reserves and Guard get a LOT of separated pilots who want to keep the bennies and retirement in the equation). I do agree that we spend a lot more time on the job for the pay. Some trips of 12 or 13 hours of flying require being on the road for three or four days.........with sits at the airport (airport appreciation time as we affectively call it) of five or six hours for 1.2 hours of block time. That is unproductive and ridiculous in my book. This profession is hard on the family life, and even hard when you don't have a family. It's just not the fun it used to be. Don't get me wrong........I love my job and the folks I work with, but there's a lot of extraneous BS that comes with it (TSA for example), and that has taken the wind out of the sail so to speak. If I did have kids, I'd let them follow their hearts desire. If they wanted to be in my profession, I'd let them. Why dash their dreams? This is an incredible job............it just has a lot of pitfalls right now.

Dreams
 

As a father of soon to be five sons my position is to provide leadership and guidance in regards to their chosen careers. In my current profession I work with college kids a lot. I always ask them what they are studying. Most of the time it is something fun that really will not translate into a job in the end. I get a lot of answers like; exercise science, english, art history ect...

College is supposed to be fun however if I am supporting the endeavor then it will be towards something of value like; engineering, accounting or medicine. I am buying something other than just a four year party for my kids. I hope to secure for them the means of supporting themselves and to build into them a work ethic.

I am with Sully in regards to recommending an airline career for my kids.

Skyhigh

"I am with Sully in regards to recommending an airline career for my kids."
Sky High


Imagine that.....he isn`t recommending an airline career....who woudda thunk it!

I wouldn't recommend aviation to my kid, either, because the only reason he has an interest in flying is because he see's what a great job I have. That's the wrong way to look at it.

People should get into flying because they love flying. It can be a great career for those who can put up with the downside. Of course, it's easy to be critical of the career at the moment with the economy and age 65. Who knows what the future will bring.

Skyhigh, you even said that yourself.

Here's some good Skyhigh quotes from the past:

"No one can really say what will happen".... Skyhigh 5/20/08

"I have no issue with those of you who advance knowingly into this profession." Skyhigh 6/7/08

"I am not trying to stop a true believer from joining the ranks" Skyhigh 9/18/08

"I am not trying to criticize anyone. Just trying to get people to think about a few things." Skyhigh 12/26/08

and lastly, one of my favorites

"Everything that you need to know about flying can be gotten from watching a few King tapes." Skyhigh 12/02/2008

I wonder what Sully would think about that one......

Like Rick James used to sing: Colllllld Bloooooded.

Where was this article that the thread refers to?

Those lines are priceless! Just ordered my King tapes to watch on international layovers in case I missed something along the way. Jack Handy is alive and he's on Airline Central Forums.

Capt. Sully Worried About Airline Industry, CBS Evening News: Flight 1549 Pilot Exclusively Tells Katie Couric His Fear About Future Pilots - CBS News

Notice, if you will, the part about the lack of military pilots seems not to be attributed to Sully...

LMAO...

And that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to priceless/clueless Skyhigh lines. For someone running around handing out cyanide to anyone who even contemplates thinking about aviation he sure spends a lot of time around those actually doing it who didn't give up...

Real estate or assisted suicide suicide sales must not be going so well. :D

Very strange.

Priceless.. That made my day

You make me blush
 

I don't get what you see in those garden variety quotes. I must have made some better ones that that. They don't even seem all that incriminating.

Skyhigh

"I must have made some better ones that that. They don't even seem all that incriminating."

I wasn't trying to incriminate. I was trying to stay on topic. But, since you asked, I think this one is "better".

"I do think that airline pilots today are little more than programmable humans who conduct a flight by following a highly scripted and choreographed series of rote memorized procedures and actions. They are manual driven flow chart following automatons who carry out the direction and decisions of others. Dispatch, maintenance control, Boeing engineers and ATC run the show. The pilots are spring loaded to react to situations in a pre-determined manner and if they run off the script will contact others for further direction. The mantra is "Do not think just do". Follow the procedure. Thinking gets pilots into trouble"

Skyhigh 11/19/2008

Wonder who told Sully he couldn't make TEB and that the river was his only option?

He wasn't programmed by Microsoft, I can tell you that much. I got the Blue Screen of Death when I tried to play around with the scenario in Flight sim.

I think Sully's point is that too many pilots now are programmed.

OBSONOK (Oktoberfest beer sprayed out nose onto keyboard)

Ok Sideshow's post wins "Best of Show". :D

I was a "bush" pilot for nearly 5 years. I used to fly a twin engined STOL turbo prop (CA-212 on skies) onto polar sea ice floes hundreds of miles off shore to resupply scientific and military research camps all winter long out of Deadhorse AK. In the summer I flew wheels and floats and also was a smoke jumper pilot for the AK smoke jumpers out of Fairbanks AK.

Does this mean that Skyhigh will be my internet buddy now and listen up from time to time? Apparently I've meet his criteriea for background experience.Or am I still just programed robot who flies by a "script" and has to ask for help if anything goes wrong?

I think not as he is the all knowing all seeing sage of aviation since he quit the industry after it treated him so poorly.

Yes Virgina you can put skies on a CASA

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18...yn/Casa212.jpg

I could care less about the petty little BS on this thread, but this is a sweet picture. That looks like a great experience. Thanks for sharing Hoss.

aileronjam

Looking back it was the most interesting flying that I ever did. It was kind of cold up there too!
:D

I've got some great shots up on the sea ice that I need to scan.

But back to the point. Sulley is right on in his assessment of the current state of the industry. While I agree with just about everything he had to say I'd just add that there are a heck of a lot of civilian trained pilots who have varied backgrounds with serious relevant experience. I am not knocking military training as it is fantastic only saying that I think the media is a making a bit much of it at this point.

i wouldnt trade my DC-3,and piston Convair time for all the tea in China !

C'mon admit it, most of us watched the King tapes for the guys hot wife who stars in them

What kind of a man sits back.... oh well :p
This industry is soooo cruel. Soooooo cruel!
Why quit and then stick around a forum trying to kill dead flies? Makes no sense. Serves no purpose. Either sit it out like CA Sully did (you can always hope to be part of a lucky chain of events) or get out and become a Doctor.

None of the pilots I ever met would recommend flying for the airlines to their kids. It has taken them years and years to get to where they are.
Lots of hard work, and always the realization that it can be over for good tomorrow. The whole thing is nothing but a sand castle. I wonder how it is then still possible to recruit cheap labor and get so many people to spend all this good money for all this? Could someone explain? Why are the academies cranking out pilots like chocolate chips if a long timer like Sully makes $108K? Are you kidding? $108K, for this job?
:rolleyes:

Hey me too. All of my "heavy" piston time was in an L-18 Lodestar. But Those were some great memories. Including several engine shutdowns and one really fun in flight engine fire.:)

you fly round engines long enough ,you are bound to shut one or two down,i had plenty of smoke but no fire !

It's simple they all think if you study/work hard you will end up at FedEx/UPS/Southwest, never work and make bank. What they fail to realize is the aforementioned folks are statistical anomalies in the pilot career.
That and flying Cessna's is alot of fun, flying a jet must be even better.:cool:

Amen, I think we are forunate to have had the opportunity to fly the old grizzly airplanes like these. It really makes me laugh when somebody says that their ERJ or CRJ is a piece of junk or an underperformer. Put them in a DC-3 or CV-340 with jugs shooting out of the cowling and climbing at -300 fpm. At that point, only 2 things can save you. Quick instincts and knowing how to fly the plane, or some extra wind off the leg of Chuck Norris after a jumping roundhouse kick to provide that extra lift to make a suitable field.

Thanks, so it is not us suffering from being "reality challenged".
It's those who run after empty promises, go overboard on debt and work for nothing just to keep it that way?

Wow, I'm still in awe about the 108K Sully supposedly makes. I though with his experience and long term commitment he would have hit at least 180-200K if not more. $108K is an insult!

I know Mechanics who top that. And they don't have a chance to kill 155 people everytime they screw something up. :(

It is amazing how much time Sky (and maybe others) spend on a board that revolves completely around what he claims is such a worthless pursuit. The overwhelming majority here are already in the biz, well aware of its pitfalls and mindful of what might yet happen to the job, so the anti-mentor disguise is BS. For starters, I started in the '80's doing this for a living and I was never under the impression that I was guaranteed to make 300K/yr working half the month. After the turndown in '90 that showed me the door from USAir I did start looking more at business models and balance sheets than uniforms (although I still maintain the Delta double-breasted commodore outfit is hot :D) and flight attendants (well that has gotten much easier to look past considering American hiring practices) to decide where I would apply. And it took me years to get the interview here, and in the interim did what I had to do and diversified as needed so as not to get into debt. It wasn't brain surgery, just common sense if I managed it. So Sky for example (I think) went into real estate, which by most accounts has tanked as bad if not worse than aviation. Will he quit that soon too, and frequent ****ed Off Ex-Realtor.com telling the tens of thousands of out-of-work realtors and brokers to park their running E55 AMG in the garage and go to sleep? Some people are pre-disposed to give up (and some in an apparently angry toddler fashion) and then spend enormous amounts of time trying to convince themselves that it was somebody else's fault under the guise of being the wise noble sage.

At least have the dignity to admit it to yourself and go save would-be realtors from delusions of success.

They don't?

Oh wait, you must be talking about car mechanics. It's not like there are many airline A&Ps breaking six figures these days.

Sully
 

Man you guys are right. Sullenberger should keep his whining toddler tantrums to himself and quit the profession already. Some are quitters and complainers while others are born to take the abuse. Why go onto a national format and complain? Who cares if his family has sacrificed? Why should anyone care what he thinks of the future prospects in the industry? There are sacrifices to be made in every profession. This career just isn't cut out for everyone.

Most will not make to the left seat of a MD-11 at FedEx. Everyone knows that. For some reason he didn't make it to the big time. Boo Hoo. He must not have tried very hard or made some kind of mistake. Why cry about it now? If he loved the profession he would keep his trap shut and be thankful that the company provides him with an A320 to fly.

Love it or leave it man. ;) It is what it is.

Skyhigh

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and your last sentence covers you for the next twelve hours...

It is indeed what it is, but as for Sully;

He wasn't/isn't whining, but is using his time in the spotlight to illuminate what is happening to the profession, along with virtually all other professions the world over. Namely how the powers that be are using every opportunity (real or invented) to get us on the cheap and wring every last ounce of productivity out of us. Many of us who choose to remain are involved at different levels and in different ways to stem the tide, while doing what it takes to make ends meet and/or proactively prepare for the numerous land mines that we who choose to stay have to circumnavigate. Sully for example started his own safety consulting business quite some time ago, and was heavily involved in safety at ALPA. He wisely parlayed his experience into a back-up plan, which especially now will pay big dividends for him. He also got a post graduate degree at Purdue to further bolster his resume and knowledge base. While I suspect that he possibly may not return to the job for a variety of reasons, he sure won't be stomping off in a two year-old tantrum like some. He has made it clear the sacrifices he and his family have made, and isn't looking for a scapegoat like some. Beyond all that, most people in any walk of life make great sacrifices, not just you. But at least you're in a growth industry, namely victimhood. Perhaps we'll see you at an administration press conference/infomercial soon bemoaning your sad, sad plight in life.

In the meantime maybe you could go picket Embry Riddle screaming at those poor deluded souls who don't embrace defeat and victimhood.

I commend and quote any post that can deliver such venom without profane and direct instults...while still illustrating a point. Thank you for your entertaining retort and for inducing a short bit of maniacal laughter on my end.

Yours,

The rubber necker.

You're welcome. I suspect many have just tuned him out as there is already far too much depressing hand wringing as it is in this business. Like we don't already know times are tough...

I've met her and she's even BETTER looking in person :D!!!!!!

Actually as a furloughed airline pilot turned back to instructing, us here at the ERAU Prescott campus might have to endure the possibility of laying off most of our instructors over the summer due to lack of enrollment....Not guaranteed but a possibility. So even the academies have stopped making their "cookies" just because the students and parents are realizing that it might not be beneficial to spend all that money for a career that isn't looking so hot right now.:cool:

Well actually they do have that chance, look at Alaska flight 261, or Air Midwest 5481, and AA 191, all due to mechanics screwing up, and yes due to other factors as well but mostly because mechanics weren't doing their job correctly or at all.

I was not talking of A&P's... :rolleyes: