You are not there to see what the rest of us see. Your simplistic rationale only works with passengers whom do not care (and that's getting smaller by the day), not employees.

Again, if they knew and saw what we see, it would be different. Even when speaking to classes or groups, I see the mindset go from price to safety in a flash.

I don't think de-regulation is the answer. We need competition to survive and excel.

However, to fix this profession, these are the two most important items to fix as I see it:

1) DUMP THE SENIORITY SYSTEM WITH REGARDS TO PAY.

At the very least with regards to pay. You can keep seniority when it comes to bidding for schedules, vacation, etc. There is no excuse for one 737 FO to be paid $25/hour and another FLYING FOR THE SAME COMPANY to be paid $90/hour. Ridiculous! Has nothing to do with experience, yet only has to do with one's date of hire. This is cheapening our profession, and makes about as much sense as having 3 pilots flying a 737NG. We should have one payscale per aircraft negotiated per duration of the contract.
Here's an example:

B-737 Captain B-737 First Officer
2009 $120/hour $84/hour
2010 $124/hour $86/hour
2011 $128/hour $90/hour

Notice it eliminates probationary pay, etc and includes 3% cost of living increase per year. A captain seat should be worth x and FO seat should be worth y. Would it be so difficult to start over here? What about "attracting the best talent" that Sully talked about on TV? I'm sorry, but experienced pilots from failed airlines are mostly leaving the country because of our current ridiculous seniority scheme.

2) MAKE AIRLINE EMPLOYEES NOT SUBJECT TO RAILWAY LABOR ACT.

It is not as if we have 1 or 2 airlines flying in this country that the entire country would shut down if one group of airline employees went on strike. How many different ways can you go from NY to LA on how many different airlines? I see people here saying that airlines would en masse go under due to strikes... I don't think so. However, it WOULD remove this foot-dragging you see by airline managements. Basically, we have x-amount of time to settle this contract... once it expires at 0001, the union has the right to call for an immediate strike.

Basically, by doing these two things, we would level the playing field. If we find our airlines run by the likes of Icahn, Tilton, etc., we can vote with our feet without fears of having to do the same job for 80% less simply because we changed airlines. It greatly cushions the blow should your airline go under and you're forced to start over again. Hal and I are living examples of it - he's from ATA, and I'm from Aloha. Our experience and knowledge doesn't end with our former airlines. Yet, with regards to compensation, we're treated as if we're brand new rookies... in this country.

Our government was found on and operates under checks-and-balances system. We should apply the same concept to our industry. Plain and simple... level the playing field. Senior guys at Delta are gonna hate it because they "had to do it the hard way so should everyone else." Stop and think about it, if we as human race thought like that AND ACCEPTED that way of thinking, we'd still be stuck in stone ages.

[quote=SkyHigh;571134]Not even going to engage this...

But can you pencil me in for an appointment? I need my ears lowered...I'll need to see your certifications first of course..

[quote=SkyHigh;571134]Fellas, help me out...is Skyhigh right? Are there really Regional FOs who were hired who had NEVER TOUCHED an airplane or taken one aviation course 3-6 months prior to being hired? Really? Pedestrian to airline pilot in six months?

And BTW, for some reason I messed up the original quote and it looks like I originally posted the above two lines. Even though it says "originally posted by AU96, the quote is Skyhigh's rebuttal to my "ohhh boy" post. I'm not the one comparing sacrifices of barbers to those of professional turbine pilots...

Disrecruitment
 

Clever plan! May I say that you are doing your part to accomplish this. It's not necessary that the career actually stink, just that it be perceived as stinking, and job-seekers will stay away in droves. Then, those secretly "in the know" can cash in! :p

[QUOTE=AU96;571192]No, there are 142 schools now. ERAU and the like have become 141 and 142 schools. What that means is that about 1/2 of the time it takes under a 141 program to get your Commercial Mutil Instrument. Most of the time (1/2) of it is done in sims. Not level D but C and B. It is not a MPL, but it is getting close.

Really? I thought it was the deceiteful banks, mortgage brokers, & Americans living WELL outside their means that contributed to this economic crisis. It has nothing to do with socialism. Turn off the Rush Limbaugh. :rolleyes:

You are absolutley right, it is the deceiteful banks and brokers that caused this mess. The sub-prime mortgage crisis is one of the primary reasons we are in this financial nightmare. Isnt it mismanagement and corporate greed from the highest levels of these companies that caused this? These Bank CEO's made millions and went on hundred thousand dollar vacations while their companies failed. Shouldnt any company fail that is managed this poorly? What does the government do?

GAVE THEM BILLIONS IN BAILOUT MONEY and says shame on you, here is a 90 billion dollars, try not to let it happen again!!!

Proving that the government is irresponsible! We are rewarding people for abhorent business concepts and pratices. Why dont they bail out Skybus and let them try again? How about Independence Air? They certainly deserve another chance using our tax money!!! Let the private sector take its course and the strong will survive. We are the idiots that are willing to work for these subpar wages then we complain. Once people stop wanting to become pilots, then wages will go back up. I only hope that people stop loving it soo entirely much that they will live in a shelter just so they can fly a CRJ.

Rush has been getting alot of media attention these days :)

Personally I don't blame "deceitful banks, mortgage brokers, and Americans living WELL outside their means" as much as I blame our Federal Government for allowing these factors to destabilize the American Economy.
I'm not a fan of expanding our Governments Regulating Authority because the problem still lies in adequate enforcement BY our Federal Government.

Having our Congress grill Corporate CEOs about irresponsible, unethical business methods is the very definition of Irony. Congress will easily ask Upper Level Managers, CEOs, and Investors to pay more taxes and bear the brunt of extra tax burdens, but that same Congress is still happy to vote themselves a pay raise every single year.

We need to FIX the system before we start changing it.
Until our Politicians are held accountable for their actions, we as a country will continuously be victims of corruption in our Government.
We reward incompetence, just look at Governor Blago...No prison, just an impeachment followed by a six-figure book deal.

One thing that hasn't been pointed out in the deregulation debate is the bankruptcy issue. Ok, you want to run an airline based on a penny a seat mile, fine. But when you're out of money, you're out of the game. Presently you file bankruptcy and continue, forcing the other airlines to compete against your unrealistic plan.