Pielut, I can tell you this much I don't want to be worry about my job every year it really sucks. I don't see cops, or goverment workers scared of loosing their job. I am not saying lets get the goverment to paid our salary but how about some stability in our jobs. Why because we work very hard for it.
I don't need $300,000 to leave happy but I don't want to get paid one year whatever and next year be out the job.
1515Greenlight I agree with you in some extend, it is a mistake that we are paying day after day. In what right mind we let companies aquired RJ and let them get away with it? RJ is taking a dollars everyday from Pilots you know how? well Iam sure you know, bigger airplane every year E170 very nice aircraft but not helping the industry unless companies start paying whats right for it. DC9 = EMB170 perfect example.

Nope. Private for-profit health care spends 20 to 30% of a health care dollar on administration and profit. Medicare spends 3% on administration


yeah right, the "market" is absolutely flawless.:rolleyes:

Why don't we just regulate our Union's rather than worry about the whole industry. It sounds like people want the government to do our dirty work. If everyone is so bitter about our falling pay/work rules why don't we actually get together and do something about it rather than constantly *****ing. The ALPA tool box is a complete failure unless the company is trying to fire you. Just look at what's happened over the last 30 years. Hell, just look at the last 15 and what regional contracts are like. NWA pilots came up with a contract for Compass that was worse than there own and theirs was a bankruptcy contract.

Pilots need to start looking into the mirror to see that a lot of our problems are caused by us.

Why is the value of that seat going down? Is it going down simply because there are people willing to do it for less, or is it going down because there are people willing to do it for less and most of the majors are in serious financial trouble? When profit margins go down, the first place management looks to reduce costs is in employee compensation. I suspect that is just as true in aviation as it is everywhere else. It is doubtful that pay is ever going to return to the golden age standard, but it is definitely not going to while many carriers are losing money or are unable to make a stable profit.




They do suck at running a business, but some of them have also shown that there is a successful business model that is consistently profitable in not only the post-deregulation airline world but in the modern and post-9/11 airline world. Look at Southwest. Airline management needs to be seriously looking at what Southwest is doing that makes them able to be so consistently profitable.

[B]Well but why was SW so good doing business? because back then they were the Wallmart of today, sure they done a fantastic job but in a way they had destroy the industry in conjuction with comair with pretty CRJ.

Yes I said it.[/B :eek:

Playing devil's advocate here, I'm not trying to be-little anyone's pain. I'm unemployed now. It sucks. And no, I'm not hoping to take anybody's job flying an RJ or 767, I'll probably end up staying in my far corner up top left there on the map.

All the talk about guarantees of income and job security through the government's action, or lack thereof, that's what bothers me. The ideal in America is that we have the freedom to pursue our goals the way we want to, and unfortunately the other side of that coin is that we are also responsible for our failures. The government is not responsible for making sure my job in the free market is secure, or at just the right level of pay. Especially if the government decides that the way to secure my job is through limiting the freedom of other citizens in a free market system.
Everyone, across the board is worried right now. It's not just aviation people. If I wanted an excellent job with great pay- I guess I should have gone into banking.

Edit- I'm editing this a little because I AM in favor of limiting the ability of non majority U.S. corporations to compete in our domestic market. I personally believe the federal government is the only entity that can enforce such restrictions. I AM also in favor of limiting the ability of non U.S. citizens to take jobs at U.S. corporations unless there is full reciprocity with their home country. Yes, I'm a protectionist.

Cops are being cut where I live so I don't think they are immune to the downturn.

There is plenty of stability in our industry. You just can't be in the bottom 10% or at a regional. There would be greater stability if "we the pilots" hadn't given up scope and allowed for the greater instability at the regionals. That is our fault and not the fault of deregulation.

There are thousands of people out there that one day have a job and the next day they don't. A major difference is that our job is very specialized compared to others.

Southwest is not what destroyed the industry, nor is the pretty CRJ. Business changes. New ideas emerge. New technology emerges, and with it a company's way of thinking and doing business must change to take advantage of it or be left behind by those companies that do.

They come looking because we give in every time. If we said no once in awhile they might not come looking. Unfortunately there is someone out there at other airlines willing to do it cheaper and will take the pay cut.

There are plenty of companies out there that don't look to their employees first. If they did they would just leave and go somewhere else. We as pilots can't do that so they just lean on us until one of us caves and then forces the hand of all the other airlines out there.

Nothing is going to change until we all stand together somehow.

The lack of decent pay on 50 seaters didn't help and that is more of a pilot fault (unions) than a regulation/company issue.