6500 ATP, jet driver.
US carrier.

WHY AS A PILOT GROUP WE ARE WORRYING ABOUT THE PUBLIC?

Because the public pays your salary, they don't buy tickets, you have no job. It is not the job of Congress to make sure you get paid more. It is the job of pilots to stop taking crap jobs for crap pay. Regulation will produce higher ticket prices but will reduce the number of people who fly which means less pilots are needed.

Restore
 

It's true this industry is run on cheap tickets. If regulation comes back as it was in the 1970's ticket prices would go up as much as three times what they are now. The industry would have to shrink by two thirds.

It is not just the pilots. The rampers, flight attendants, gate agents all would want their wages restored. Ticket prices would explode and demand would dry up. The airlines are already facing serious challenges to attracting customers. If it cost $3000 to fly coach from NYC to LAX it would kill what is left of the market.

Competition means cheap tickets and cheap tickets means a flying public and a flying public is good for our economy and national business machine. No one wants regulation to return.

Skyhigh

The issue is not regulation as we saw pre 1978, which was a long and twisted version of the old air mail contract route protections. What is needed is what was conveniently overlooked by the Reagan Administration in the post dereg environment...financial oversight.

Since 1978, the airlines have been living on float to grow. Sell the Jones family discount seats to Disney World twice a year at a loss. Make it up on the business flyer and the ones who want to fly first class. And hope the books balance. More and more Joneses wanted to fly, so more and more cheap capacity. And the books got uglier, because the business man decided to curtail his travel because of cost and new technology that allowed him to stay at the home office more.

The problem is that pre 1978, the Joneses would have not been able to afford travel in the regulated environment that gave airlines enough cash to pay the bills, maintain the fleet and pay the employees...and make a reasonable profit. The Joneses would have take road trips and cooked out in the back yard.

Well now the Joneses can't do Disney World because they lost their jobs. Capacity is high and the business man just got laid off too.

What should be regulated is the minimum operating cost of an airliner. Taking into consideration pay, maintenance, and all costs of operation for a particular aircraft type. Airlines can figure out whatever else they want in the equation, but a minumum rate that ensures the fleet is maintained and the company is at break even; so it does not end up in bankruptcy or asking for federal handouts should be set. That hourly cost divided by the number of seats, sets a minimum price at which the commodity is sold. If they can get more, great. If not, at least they don't become an albatross on the industry that everyone races to the bottom on cheap fares.

Then, if management screws up, they get canned by the board of directors. If they want to set a higher rate and can get it, fine.

Yes capacity will shrink across the board. The Joneses will likely learn new games to play while travelling by car. Responsible airlines will be able to pay good wages, pay their bills and have a modest annual profit. Employees can have a piece of the pie by understanding that responsible cost savings, developed with management and watched by both, can lead to profit sharing or pay increases. There will be a desire by all to have an efficient operation and weed out the abuses by those who are wasteful AND those who are too zealous.

Passengers will re-learn that air travel is not a right, but a convenience and showing up late, with too many bags or stuffing the overheads does not work anymore. Nor does a bad attitude, because those folks are likely the ones who won't or can't pay the price anymore.

There is room for the RJ to serve smaller cities that the majors don't want to go to and feed the majors and vice versa. Under the current model, the majors can't survive without the feed from smaller cities to their hubs and they can't afford to buy the capacity to service the smaller cities. It's time for everyone to grow up and accept that fact. It's also time for the major's to get their heads out of the sand and figure out reasonable flow through agreements. It's been a problem since the late 70's and will not go away. You need those guys to feed you and you need them to stand with you if you strike. And vice versa.

At the end of the day, we as a nation must look at the world and realize they have it right. Some folks can't afford cars, they travel by bus. Some can afford cars, but for long trips with $6.00/gallon gas, they travel by train. And some can afford both, but have the disposable income and the ability to pay a reasonable fare and travel by air. And some can do it all and travel First Class.

Can it work? Yes. Will it take time? Yes.

The belief that cheap tickets will drive the free market and that is good for the economy is pure BS. All it does is forestall the inevitable failure when the money isn't there to pay the bills.

Look back at all the "cheap fare" upstarts that have died since 1978. The best example of that was Peoples Express. Don Burr, the CEO once said they broke even with 179 passengers on their 727's.

Only one problem.

They only had 174 seats.

One big difference, Amtrack is not a, "Lifeblood of the nations economy."

Cheap tickets are NOT why airlines can exist. Before regulation, there were more than a handful of airlines making money (and so did the government) and there were more than enough passengers paying those prices.

Current passenger entitlement has no bearing on the success of re-introducing regulation.

Managment has said over and over that they are GOING to increase ticket prices by a significant amount. The biggest difference now, for us, is that through the the process of "true capatilism", management types make the money while lauging at our paycheck.

Did you ever heard about confort?
 

Pielut, I think you are missing the point in this matter, and honestly this is why we don't have any progress as a pilot group.

Think about this for one second passengers won't drive to LAX people here in the US want fast cheap and good all three together atl once. Why in the world don't we increase the prices so we can for once get your job and many others to be worth something. It is
unfortunately the mediocre judgement like yours for example give the wrong idea to this industry.
I am sorry if I offend you not mean to do that but it is what is, most passenger if they are flying they have money and if they don't they need to stay home. I want job security and not crazy salary just enough to put my kids tru college and have a decent life.

DO YOU SEE PEOPLE NOT EATING IN OUT A LOT?

DO YOU SEE PEOPLE NOT SHOPING A LOT?

This country needs certain things yes passenger paid our tickets but at what price ?

Oh and how many pilot in furlough right now? A LOT I don't know but you sound like you work for SW, Aitran or the Blue, in my opinion there is nothing wrong with but at what price?

Transportation is a most in this wonderful country.

Will it ever happen? No. I grew up around mostly Delta pilots since my father was one. This argument has been going on since deregulation and it will never change. Setting a minimum price is price fixing, ie illegal. The government has no business telling private companies what they can and can't do. The airlines are failing because airline managers suck at running a business and pilots wages continue to decline because they have been hammered on every contract in the last 8 years. Giving up scope, wage concessions etc. The $300,000 a year pilot is never coming back, unless you fly cargo(ups, fedex)

The last guy who wanted to do this was none other than that "big" supporter of pilots, Senator John McCain. He threatened it the last time UAL had a dust up. He wanted to nationalize airline pilots and put us on the GS pay scale.

As to strikes, the reason Reagan took on the controllers was not because he wanted to take them out. He really didn't care. His problem was the Postal workers, who were threatening to strike later that year and he knew the country could not take that strike.

In PATCO, he saw Bob Poli as someone he felt would get PO'd and strike if he (Reagan) pushed them enough. So he did. And in doing so and firing the controllers, scared to Poatal Union into a new, reduced contract.

Chiledelaire- I understand what you are saying, I am just offering a counterpoint. There is no progress as a pilot group because people are still taking crap jobs or PFT garbage. As long as they can get pilots for $20,000 a year, why would they pay more. Do you want the government to set your pay?

This is not a false statemtent but that is a good thing. Contraction in this industry is a must and WILL happen and the time to have those not as qualified, by most all standards of the past, is long overdue.

We must get back to a limited number of seats to help bring the value of that seat back up.