Petergowzinya

Once again....."2-US and 1 AWA'??? who saved who???? reverse that quote and it might be fair....or just staple US to the bottom...which is where they were headed anyway if I were Mr Parker, I would have shut US down fore one day.then rehired who I needed with new DOH's that would be fair no?

RedeyeAV8r

Mergers generally S$$k fo the labor groups. As for what is fair.......that is in the eyes of the beholder.

Don't get into a ****ing contest back and forth because it does no good.Line pilots have little control.............the actual integration #'s will more than likely be decided by binding arbritration.

cactusmike

Redeye - you are absolutely right - there is no need to get into a ****ing contest over something that will be decided by an arbitrator. I just need to vent sometimes, though. I just don't understand why the concept of relative seniority can't be understood by the East side. That way there is no displacement, there are no extra training events (something management has said they will not allow anyway) and everyone gets to stay where they are at until a bid comes out and then you just bid what you can hold.

Every time there has been a merger with seat and equpiment fences and complicated ratios based on the position of the sun and stars on the leapyear date there has been great heartburn and major lawsuits. The simpler you make the system for combining lists the more transparent the process is and the less chance for a DFR (duty of fair representation) lawsuit.

The ratio for active pilots is about 3 US for 2 HP. Start with the A330 slots at the top of each list and then go 3 for 2 for each seat after the A330 slot numbers go to the US side. Oh, well, too simple I guess..

tomgoodman

Yes, regardless of how the lists are combined. Happened with Delta and: C & S, Northeast, Western, and Pan Am. The only way to keep peace in the cockpit is to say: "You're absolutely right. Hey, did you see that Cubs game last night?"

Savannahguy

I am not whining, rather letting you and whoever suggests that this whould be any sort of windfall for the AWA pilots that they should think again.

When DOH is not used, fences get thrown up. that's just the way things are. You might hold better senority in the A320 as a result of a ratio/precentage merger, but there is no reason you should be able to bid into the widebodies as tradeoff..

Career expectations are carrer expectations. DOH is DOH, If you do not want to dea with one, you get to deal with the other.

Much like the current situation, in which your certificate has no widebody or EMB 170/190 flying, so should your your career expectations be limited from those aircraft if you demand that date of hire senority is unfair.

Any merger is a give and take, and to allow a ratio style merger, while also allowing you access to aircraft types you did not have on the property when the companies were merged is nothing short of a windfall for you and the rest of your AWA pilots.

To argue about it at this point is fruitless, as it will be in the hands of the arbitrator. And arbitrators favor the solution that gives each party something (so they get arbitration work in the future) I agree that you probably will see a senority windfall in U's narrowbody aircraft, but you better wake up to the reality that it might cost you the widebody positions as a result.

fireman0174

With my luck, I would end up with a rabid White Sox fan!

IronWalt

CactusMike and Petergowzinya, remember that it is best to be nice to those who are junior to you now, as one day you MAY very well be working for them. Tides turn and fortunes change. This is a small industry and it is best not to poo poo on the road behind, for one day you will have to take three steps back before you go forward again.

cactusmike

Walt - been there. I pulled gear at AWA for a former F/O at Henson who got on AWA a month ahead of me. It was pretty funny because he had come to Henson from a desk job in the Air Force and was pretty rusty. I wasn't too sure he'd last as a civillian pilot but a year or so later it turned out great and we had a good time. Another former Director of Ops from a former job pulled grear for me at AWA on the 737 when he was busted back to F/O for a short while due to an incident. That was the wierdest one of all but it worked out well for both of us. It's happened at least a half dozen times to me. I try to never burn bridges.

IronWalt

Nice try at back peddling.

cactusmike

Where do you see backpeddaling? Where, for that matter do you see any attempt to not "be nice" to someone junior to me? I already explained that I have been through this situation and am quite cognizant of the fortunes of aviation. 6 airlines in 25 years will do that to you. Try reading the posts in their entirety before you start slamming. My whole point was that US East has a fixation on DOH as a starting point for a merged seniority list. We are asking for relative seniority. Only an arbitrator will decide so there is no further use in perpetuating this discussion unless it is to vent. We certainly will not decide this issue in any forum other than a courtroom.