Originally Posted by ewrbasedpilot

Last I knew, people didn't brag about the number or kinds of Vodka they had in their liquor cabinets, nor were their kids sneaking into their liquor stash to blow someone away. They didn't brag about having 15 cases of beer in the fridge, nor was drinking and driving "legal". Anyone over 21, including criminals can buy liquor. Hollow arguments...........

Originally Posted by laxflier

those kids sneaking into the liquor cabinet, getting plowed and killing a family of 4 when they take your car out for a drunken joyride? Are you that narrow minded? Guns are regulated 1000 times more than the liquor that you gave a pass on above. Correspondingly, the death rate by liquor, driving drunk, cirhossis, etc, is much higher than death by firearms. See any parallel? you have the hollow argument. Criminals cannot buy guns, yet they have them. Any ideas? Any suggestions? Or just "hollow arguments"?

Originally Posted by deltabound

Dude,

The Constitution is way too complicated for you to tie any of it so simplisticly to a clause from the Declaration of Independence, then prertend to know what the Founders wanted. For your argument to make any sense, you would have to totally ignore the first part of the 2nd Amendment. You know, the part that says, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State,...." Who is it that you think regulated the militia? The State Governments.

My point is that it is too complicated. Even the fact that the capatilized "State" means something. Ill be back in a bit for more discussion, because this is fun.

New K Now

Originally Posted by deltabound

I for one am thankful that guys like you exercise your "2nd amendment rights." Not only do you protect us from foreign vermin who seek to infest this country, but you also keep the federal government in line! Also, a nice side benefit to all of this is that a huge stockpile of guns really does make you and your family safer. Every skilled and motivated criminal knows that owning guns makes you bullet-proof, and they would never bother to figure out your schedule and try to rip you off when you're not around. (SARCASM!)

Originally Posted by deltabound

What I think doesn't matter . . . not if we're a nation of laws, and not of men. The Supreme Court definitively squashed this interpretation of the Second Amendment in the recent Columbia v. Heller in 2008. According to them, the right to bear firearms is a personal and individual right. Period.

I won't bore you with the details; if you'd like to discuss restrictions that may be placed on the 2nd amendment, that's fine. No rights, even those that are constitutionally protected, are absolute.

If you truly believe that free citizens in this country should not have the personal right to bear arms, there is a legislative remedy. The Second Amendment, like all amendments, is subject to repeal or modification. It's happened before to other amendments, and can happen again.

Originally Posted by deltabound

What I think doesn't matter . . . not if we're a nation of laws, and not of men. The Supreme Court definitively squashed this interpretation of the Second Amendment in the recent Columbia v. Heller in 2008. According to them, the right to bear firearms is a personal and individual right. Period.

I won't bore you with the details; if you'd like to discuss restrictions that may be placed on the 2nd amendment, that's fine. No rights, even those that are constitutionally protected, are absolute.

If you truly believe that free citizens in this country should not have the personal right to bear arms, there is a legislative remedy. The Second Amendment, like all amendments, is subject to repeal or modification. It's happened before to other amendments, and can happen again.

Originally Posted by ewrbasedpilot

I have NO problem with people owning guns..............responsibly. The 2nd amendment says:

“ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ”

The 2nd amendment has caused more controversy due to it's "interpretations", just like the right to "free speech" includes (through interpretation of the Supreme Court) being able to burn the American flag. How that is "speech" is beyond me, because if I call someone an idiot, they can sue me for "mentally disparaging them" and then it's not "free speech" any more......it's an insulting, harming, damaging, remark. Watch TV and any time a public figure uses their right to "free speech" and say something controversial, they are tarred and feathered. Go figure. I guess most of these "gun nuts" NEED 60 guns in their arsenal for protection. I'm surprised most of them leave their homes during the day for fear someone is going to take them out. Yep, those guns packed away in a safe sure will protect them on the street, won't they? Maybe they need a tank to live in too, that way they'll be even more protected than a lousy AK-47............... BTW, we've already had a few "whacko's" have their guns taken away from them. Scary, isn't it?

Originally Posted by ewrbasedpilot

So based on what I'm reading, many on this forum would have NO PROBLEM with EVERYONE carrying concealed weapons as long as they were "properly trained". That'd sure make me feel safe........... The first time someone feels "threatened", they'd pop the other guy off. Then it's going to be "who's got better and bigger firepower", who's faster on the draw, who's aim is better, etc. We'll be setting ourselves up for quite a show. Hopefully I'm not there to enjoy it. I guess we should all be going out and buying Tasers next.

Originally Posted by Droog

I personally don't care if people want to own guns or anything else. In fact, I don't care if you move to Ruby Ridge, build a log cabin, and surround it with a moat and nuclear missles! What I do care about is honesty. I happen to believe that using the 2nd amendment (and even personal security) to justify your stockpile is a bunch of bs. An earlier poster (Toiletduck) said that guns were "fun," and I respect that honesty! Even though I don't own guns, I could imagine that shooting things would be fun! Maybe you just want to impress your friends, or maybe it's some pseudo-phallic thing. Who knows. As far as personal security is concerned, I would like to present the following rule of thumb: until you can DEMONSTRATE that you can pull that trigger WITHOUT HESITATION while looking someone in the eye DURING A HIGH-PRESSURE SITUATION (and splatter their brains all over your wife's new window treatments), DO NOT ASSUME that the gun will be of any use to you in a real confrontation. This is the same concept as giving someone emergencies in the sim. It's one thing to talk about what you would do in a given situation, and another to actually do it when your heart is beating 900 times a minute, you have tunnel-vision, and no fine-motor skills.

There's one other point that I would like to make. I have figured out who some of you are, just as some of you know me and/or have figured out who I am. I find it ironic that some of you will not discuss the details of the FFDO program (which is a good thing), but some of you will advertise in so many words, on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM, that you have a stockpile of guns at home (thereby putting you and/or your family at risk)! It is not beyond the realm of possibility for someone to not only figure out who you are, but also your address and your basic schedule. Just something to think about on your next 4 day trip.