When the commuter train crashed in California didn't the ntsb say it was fatigue even though the engineer was sending text messages up until seconds before the crash, and the first thing they did was drop the duty time for train crews?

ALPA actually asked about this to the Civil Aerospace Medical Institute rep for the FAA. ALPA was asking 'would appropriately timed conversation (above 10K) help reduce fatigue'?

The answer was 'yes'. As the NTSB pointed out too, many people use conversation to stay awake in cars, and pilots should consider it as well as a fatigue mitigation strategy, provided it doesn't detract from their duties. However, as I write this, NASA is testifying that 'conversation usually requires attention, thus detracting from situational awareness'. So, consider talk to reduce fatigue, but not enough to detract from situational awareness.

It should be noted that the direct physical events that caused this accident (retardation of the throttle, flap extension, gear extension, prop pitch change, shaker, control column movement, partial throttle increase, pusher, rudder pedal movement, flap retraction) did not occur in the midst of conversation.

Yes, but the accident FO awoke in the morning in SEA, then started her commute that evening (or that was my understanding from the testimony in front of the NTSB hearing yesterday). The NTSB and FAA believe she had over 36 hours since her last full sleep. She slept on her SEA-MEM leg, as well as in MEM. How well was she rested @ the time of the accident? We'll never know for sure.

Her schedule was likely more fatiguing than any regional schedule (even the worst ones are not a 36 hour duty day).

The problem is the public doesn't hear about the majority of commuters, but only about this one, which was abnormal. The public only knows the most sensational aspects of reality.

I would opine the problem is much more broad in nature. All these events are merely symptoms of the problem. In short, the airline business model is broke - plain and simple. The companies simply cannot make money on a long-term sustained basis unless of course you are a fuel-hedge brokering airline and that is more of a credit to fuel hedging not the airline model. As a result airline management (notice I didn't write leadership) does everything it can to bust into labor which in many cases ultimately includes safety whether they want to admit it or not. Meanwhile, same management has no problem robbing the corporate coffers to ingratiate themselves and their grandchildren. So what is the solution? Re-regulate the airlines. They are nothing more than a utility anyway with one exception -- utilities make money.

I agree 100% corporate greed and union greed have ruined this industry, it's time for the government to step in.

You want the airlines run like the Post Office? :eek:

Oh wait...:D

No Block, You're BROKE, the airline business model is broken!:D Couldn't resist that one!

Yes, good point - broke and broken. :)

How is the government going to fix this?

You missed the point. Lots of pilots go a FULL 4 day trip without getting a "full" sleep cycle. Regardless of whether they commuted in or not. I know on nights 1 and 2, or 2 and 3, or whatever combination, I've had less then 6 hours of sleep on BOTH nights. I don't know what you consider a "full" sleep cycle.

I don't consider that "full".

Great Post. This is so true.