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ASA had a -700 sim ride..... RAH made SOME of the applicants fly some desk top POS.... I had never even used one like that and did fine.... pretty easy actually.....

I would bet most dont use a sim due to the cost involved.....

fwiw... when i was interviewed and hired in 1992 with AE....we flew a citation II sim during our interview.....

outstanding post skybolt...wish we had the power to make you the new speaker of the house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDashRocks (Post 612742)

Good post, Skybolt. Almost any certification and training process will allow a few incapable people to slip by. I am thinking of an F-14 crash in the southeast during the early 90's. The pilot had been visiting family and decided to show them a max climb. He pulled a lot of G's climbing more or less straight up into an overcast. He lost situational awareness and control of the aircraft. His RIO had control of the ejection seats but was blacked out due to G-LOC and did not punch them out. The aircraft crashed and both were killed. This was the second aircraft this pilot had crashed due to poor judgement.

The Dash Whisperer

I believe that particular driver was a former RIO. A little hot dog overconfidence. Another guy almost did the same in LBB or AMA can't remember (besides thinking what a d*p******), but limped back with one shut down.

The point...can happen anytime, anywhere, to anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyone (Post 612901)

Skyhigh, you must be inhaling too much of your dirt bike fumes. I assume that this was all tongue in cheek. Remember, two over 60s can't fly together. And can you give me one 121 accident that has been advanced age related? Think Sully-late 50s, Al Haynes (UAL232) very late 50s. I believe both of those gents did a "fair" job of their situations despite being old and barely able to function in the cockpit. But again, I will take your post as a bit tongue in cheek. Right?

I didn't remember that two over 60 can not fly together.

Skybolt mentioned that there is an "envelope" of optimum performance. So far all we have discussed is the lower end of the spectrum. Complacency is not necessarily related to age just as capacity for the job is not necessary related to experience however they are related, and there have been plenty of accidents blamed on complacent pilots.

Skyhigh

"I didn't remember that two over 60 can not fly together."

Thank God. That will save thousands of lives.
Someone remind me, how old were the pilots that overflew Hilo a few years back?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyHigh (Post 612926)

skyhigh, I mentioned nothing about complacency. My position is related to pilot skills. A skilled pilot may get complacent, but he/she does possess the skills to do the job. The complacent pilot needs motivation, which is a whole other issue.

These recent accidents are pointing to the conclusion that pilots who enter the 121 arena at around the 250 hour mark just don't have the skills to succeed when the chips are down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyone (Post 612901)

Think Sully-late 50s, Al Haynes (UAL232) very late 50s. I believe both of those gents did a "fair" job of their situations despite being old and barely able to function in the cockpit.

Don't forget Captain Dave Cronin, who retired within a few months of the following event that he successfully handled.

"United Airlines Flight 811 experienced a cargo door failure in flight on Friday, 24 February 1989, after its last stopover at Honolulu International Airport, Hawaii. The resulting decompression blew out several rows of seats, killing 9 passengers."

United Airlines Flight 811 -

It doesn't get much worse than that one. Night; overwater; two engines out on one side; a nearly grossed out 747; hole in the side; etc. An example of supperb airmanship getting that thing back on the ground. They were dumpin' fuel on landing !!

From my own experience I see two types of pilots. The first type are pilots that actually fly the plane, and I don't mean with autopilot off. The first type are pilots who make the airplane do what they want. The second type are reactionary pilots, i.e. if a parameter is off, they fix it using whatever method possible. The second type are not proactive in flying but reactive. A great example of the second type would be, I was flying a plane with the autopilot differed and the guy was chasing the needle on the ILS. I asked what heading he was flying for the approach, there was no answer. CFI's, Military, Single pilot IFR, fly the airplane, the other let the airplane fly them.

It would be nice

Quote:

Originally Posted by skybolt (Post 613110)

It would be nice if every crew were at their peak but the reality is that some people are better than others. We all have good days and bad days. A 250 hour FO is not ideal but it seems to be good enough most of the time. If an extreme situation were to happen it would be best to have Chuck Yeager and Howard Hughes up front but the reality is that the airlines can get by on a daily basis with much less.

It seems to me that anyone who has the drive to become a Chuck Yeager would not be interested in burning up their days in the front of a modern airliner anyway. It takes someone with a special set of traits to be able to be able to drone along for years of doing the same thing every day over and over without getting bored silly.

In the airlines there are no points given for working harder than the next guy. Natural talent is wasted in the seniority list system. The airlines create and reward the average. Pilots are only motivated to pass the next proficiency check. Their skills and abilities are narrowed down to exactly what they need to get by.

From my experience the airlines do not prefer to hire ex-crop dusters or African bush pilots. They want people who have a long and stable career of doing the same thing everyday. You don't have to be good in order to be a successful airline pilot just good enough.

SKyhigh