AMR guy 'DUI'?
 

Pilot held in cockpit is ‘4 times drink limit’ | The Sun |News

By ANTHONY FRANCE

Published: Today
ARMED cops nicked a boozy pilot at Heathrow yesterday as he was about to take off for Chicago with 300 passengers.
Captain Joseph Crites, 57, was allegedly four times the limit when he was held trying to enter the cockpit of his American Airlines Boeing 777.

The veteran US flier, from Ohio, had been drinking the night before.

Security staff alerted cops when they smelled alcohol on his breath.

Passengers on Flight AA87 were delayed for 1½ hours until a replacement pilot was found for the 4,900-mile trip.

Cpt Crites was taken to Heathrow nick after failing a breath test. He was bailed until July 16.

American Airlines last night insisted: “The company has strict policies on alcohol and substance abuse and holds its employees to the highest standards.”

I was ready to jump to his defense on the airport harassment but I think he's done...

State of Ohio vs. Joseph Crites (Ohio 2000) - Ohio Supreme Court - vLex

"second felony DUI and twelfth career DUI."

Hope it was worth it Joe!

12 DUI's and an airline captain? uhhh... i suspect we can pin this one on the union? i don't know. how does it happen?

Can we be sure that this guy is the same as the pilot, or another guy with the same name.

Joe

If in fact this is the same sot, with 12 DUIs under his belt, I’m surprised the FAA has not taken certificate action. Better yet, I would be surprised that AMR had not tried to manage him off the property.

Don't think you can blame this or any on the Union. Used to be only employers checked the NDR nat. Drivers Registry. It's the FAA now and perhaps they don't check it often enough.
At AA we had a CA fired for failing to declare two beers in Customs Immigration. On a random Xray screen exiting Customs he was stopped for not declaring 2 beers in his overnight bag. AA security was called and he was terminated.
AA FA's have been terminated for possession of company liquor and under the influence.
I was drug and alcohol tested just two trips ago. I get randomly tested about every 8 months.
Just throwing a little info out here. Yes, unions are supposed to try to help you get "Not fired" for all reasons.
If this CA had 12 prior "If" and they did not happen at work, how would the Union know?
Are you suggesting that Professional Standards division knew?

It is hard to interpret your question on the internet. Or if it is sarcastic.
7576

Bottle to Thottle
 

One would figure that given all the attention during the past decade in relation to crews being busted for being under the influence that people would have gotten the message and I have a question and that is if the security people could pick up the alcohol on his breath than why could his F/O not ?
It's a hell of a way to just flush a career and it's sad.

Fred

Closer to that magical upgrade.

Wait and see. If it is the same man, AMR will can his butt so quick it will make your head swim. If it is not, they will put him in treatment and get him the help he needs. AMR has one of the best HIMS programs out there.
There HIMS Chair is a great guy, and this is one thing that APA and AMR management see eye to eye on.
Either way they will get him the help he needs.

Either way he wont be flying for a very long time.. if ever.

If there are 12 DUI's there is no way he got past number three without some sort of FAA mandated treatment. It depends on how far apart they are, but the FAA generally gives you one and the second one puts you in an assessment to see if you need treatment. Now if he has kept all of this private and away from APA, AMR and the FAA, yes, he is gone, way gone. Probably will have criminal charges pressed as well.
Remember that falsifying your FAA medical app is a federal offense.

Last week one of the other guests at the B&B my wife and I stayed at was the head of the airport Police at one of the 5 largest airports in the US. He said TSA gets "atta boys" and recognition for promotion for busting drunk pilots and locating drugs.

He complained that most "drunk" pilots aren't drunk, just the effects of weird sleep hours and 04:30 duty ins. He also complained that the TSA wants them to arrest passengers for very small amounts of drugs, like personal use marijuana, which is a huge problem for them due to the amount of paperwork and control that goes into the Police taking possession of the contraband and handling a drug arrest. It said it was something like 4 hours of work for the simple guy with a joint arrest.

He had refused to arrest a "drunk pilot" at Security thinking the pilot had not done anything until he sat down at the controls and physically took control of the jet. Another Officer arrested the pilot and that pilot is now in jail for ten years.

Pilots should have the Federal rules enforced as applicable to their Certificate, but what bothers me is the Federal rules are enforced, THEN the pilot is prosecuted under State law. IMHO this is being prosecuted twice for the same crime, which is a violation of the Constitution and basic Civil Rights in places as freedom loving as India and Mexico. However in the goold ol' US of A our 5th Amendment is ignored under a principle called "separate sovereigns" which means the State and the Federal government are separate sovereign powers with independent Courts and Jurisdiction.

Now the Federal and State government did not seek to prosecute Timothy McVeigh for blowing up a building and killing at least eight people, but let some guy show up for work without having fully metabolized the previous night's action and the Federal Government will take immediate action without due process (as is allowed with our Certificates on an emergency basis) AND the State and or County and or City Governments will pile on with violation of whatever State and Local Ordinances they have to pursue.

The cases are "sexy" and get some Press coverage while being easy to Prosecute. A junior loser D.A. dreams of opportunities like destroying any one of our careers and families.

The "be careful out there" goes double for pilots, because pilots are targeted and will be prosecuted, once, then again, then again ... .

AA 777's don't carry 300 pax. Sorry...couldn't resist! Another one bites the dust I guess. We are supposed to have good decision-making skills, right?

I understand, and agree with, what I think you intend to say. But, for clarification purposes; The OK City bombing killed 168 and injured over 800. McVeigh and Terry Nichols were both prosecuted and eventually convicted by the Feds...

The easiest way to make sure you will not get nailed at a checkpoint is not to drink on the road. They bust you, you have nothing to worry about. Demand a blood test.

Good point. I fly with a few guys who say they just don't drink on the road at all. This guy was 4 times the legal limit though. So, if that's in fact, true, than this wasn't a case of simply over-doing it a little.

Problem is he probably went on a bender with the crew, and if the accusations are correct, his liver is mush and could not process it.

I am curious to see what they define as the legal limit in the UK. Here anything above a .02 is a positive test. ( Not the limit just a positive test)

I live in Ohio too and this place is turning me into an alcoholic as well. I can't say I blame the guy for drinking so much. This state sucks!! Maybe someday we will get some better bases. :rolleyes:

That is what I did when accused of being under the influence at SEA a couple of years ago. It was a 0600 sign in and some TSA genius reported smelling alcohol on the First Officer. It was a case of mistaken identity - the person that she thought was impaired was actually the Captain, who by the way was a Mormon and did not drink at all. He did however have some kind of fancy garlic pasta dinner the night before and he did reek of garlic. If both of our careers were not in jeopardy from an erroneous accusation it would have been hilarious. It took about three hours to clear it up (did I mention this was the last day of the rotation) as we both demanded to be tested. The DAL gate agent supervisor was super throughout the ordeal and backed us up the whole time.

Be careful guys.

Scoop

???? I do not understand

Agreed. Everytime one of these threads comes up this is what I say. It's bad enough what we put our bodies through dragging them across the world, alcohol only makes it worse.

I'll probably get jumped on for saying this, but I don't think my career is worth a night on the town. I'll just stick to coffee. ;)

Don’t want any hassles??? Then don’t drink. However moderation and responsibility works too.

Ok, I got it... what you're saying is AMR will put him through the awesome HIMS program after he sits in jail for five years. sounds good.

I don't think you can get into HIMS after you have been busted. You have to get into it before....

How could FAA security and aeromedical fail to notice 12 offenses??? They would pull your medical for sure. For that reason alone, I'm far from convinced it's the same dude.

Or maybe most of his offenses were in the distant past, before the FAA got serious about it?

UPDATE: OK, I looked him up in the FAA Db. Joseph R Crites is the only one who comes up, and he has all the relevant types for AA.

The court document for DUI #12 names Joseph C Crites...probably a different dude. But they are both in Ohio.

Isn't alcoholism considered a disease now, not a character flaw? I'm not making excuses for anyone here, but I wonder what prevents lawyers from suing airlines who fire pilots for getting caught showing up drunk (or "sick", whatever).

A person who couldn't demonstrate a pattern could get canned for irresponsibility, while a long term alcoholic might get off due to his "disease". There's no new idea under the sun, of course, so I'm wondering why this isn't considered a valid defense.

Shouldn't those diagnosed with the "disease" of alcoholism get at least a chance at treatment, no matter how they got caught/diagnosed?

The question if employees in general are covered under the ADA (American Disabilities Act) seems to be an object of a fair amount of contentious litigation all across the nation. The AMA calls alcoholism a chronic disease, so whether or not we as pilots think it's a disease is really a moot point.

It would seem that pilots may be required to "self-diagnose" their disease and seek treatment before they get caught. Interesting, because I wasn't aware that pilots were medically trained to do so. Again, not making excuses here, but you begin to see why "getting caught" might not necessarily be a career-ender.

Just speculating, though. Personally, I'm a big believer in the "no drinking on the road" policy.

12 DUI and the FAA had not already pulled his ticket?

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

I thought one DUI was a carreer killer..

See above...the middle names do not match. I don't think the AA guy is the same guy with 12 DUIs.

And McVeigh was put to death.

Same goes for the NWA program (from what I have heard), one of the best programs out there. They really want to help those that need the help and it is available all the way up to the preflight check...opps...before start checklist.

Hey Spanky189,

If you are bored with the 737 I hear that Fox might be hiring reporters. We can always use more incorrect information that slanders another pilot without someone really doing the leg work into whether what you are presenting is a fact.

Rick thanks for shedding some light.

Repeat, Repeat! They are not the same guy.

Spanky189 is the brilliant super spy who brought up 12 DUI's through outstanding detective work and immediately everyone believes him. The problem: Spanky was wrong! The two men involved in two different incidents have different middle names. More investigation may have been beneficial, don'tyathink?

Maybe Spanky should be banned from posting flamebait accusations for awhile until he confirms his sources. The rest of you should be ashamed for jumping to conclusions and believing the first thing you hear.

This in no way is meant to condone the possibility that there may have been real violations at LHR but I'll let proper authorities handle the outcome and wait for the results.

Not true at all.

DPAC and NWA HIMS program are awesome too. I see AMR's as a little more forgiving that ours. Depends on your perspective I guess.

It is now up to the start of the Before Start Checklist. (Keep job) That does not mean that the FAA will not revoke all of your tickets. They will. You will just have a job to come back to after a very long road.

If you have an issue it is a lot better to come in from the rain than to do it this way, trust me.

As I said, there is no way that it would have gotten by the FAA.
If this is his first offense, there is a lot that HIMS can and will offer him. In the end getting caught probably saved his life.

I'll side with ACL on this one. I believe there is a difference between whether they bust you in the cockpit or going thru security.

If your sitting in/make it to the cockpit your in some deep #@$@.

They told us in indoc that the point of no return was the threshold of the boarding door. Cross that and you are now in violation of the law.

The FAA has and will take your tickets away if you show up at the airport. They see that as intent to operate.
The threshold was DAL's pilot of no return. It has changed.

Either way, just do not show up to work if you even think you have a hangover. It is that simple.

That is how it works. The conversation goes like this.... you have 2 options a program that last the rest of your career, you will lose your license for 6-12 months, go to rehab, join AA, then go into monitoring program or your fired... almost all take option 1 immediately but there is a percentage that just cant do it forever and end up giving up the job in the long run

That is why I am firmly in the camp of just don't drink, especially on a trip. I saved my captains a lot of money that first year by not drinking. Diet Coke and wasser mit gas is much cheaper than beer in Europe.