Give it up SKYHIGH
 

This is my first post,however, I have been reading on this forum for some time now. After, reading for some time now; I have came to the conclusion that skyhigh needs to give it up. His post are worthless and his attitude stinks. I have an idea for you SKYHIGH. Since, your not in aviation anymore; leave this forum. Believe me, you are not helping anyone with your post. Maybe you could start a forum for cabinet builders:D ( Or whatever your occupation) Don't you have anything else better to do than sit on this forum and b*tch about how aviation failed you. Go take your kids for a bike ride or play catch with them.

Contrary opinions are always helpful. What good would these boards be if the only advice given came from the very fortunate few? They simply do not represent the majority of the industry, and the majority of aspiring pilots will never reach their level.

Welcome to the APC forums, we're glad you're here. However, asking people to leave to forum is my job :)

One thing I've noticed about the majority of users who disagree with Skyhigh is there isn't much follow-up dialog about the risks of starting into an aviation career. We all know it never is easy to "make it" to the top, although that's an understatement these days when considering the pursuit of a career in aviation.

I haven't read all 900+ posts, but Skyhigh's recurring theme that I read is one critical of the time/value/risk equation of spending a boat load of money to chase a job that may not pay for the cost of entry into the job market for whatever reason.

You may not like the message, and obviously don't care for the messenger, but as long as you don't personalize your objection you're more than welcome to participate here.

As Uncle Bose pointed out, contrary points of view make for good dialog and I think that there is plenty of productive dialog on this topic. I would disagree with your assertion that Skyhigh's posts don't help. For anyone thinking of pursuing, it's important to have full disclosure - the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. If they know all the facts, and still decide to go for it - then it should be encouragement all the way! Skyhigh doesn't offer that encouragement - that's true. But, it's disclosure that everyone looking to jump into the piloting profession should hear. Maybe we should consider it "tough love".

Would this request also apply to our forum's retired pilots, or other posters who are either not yet in the gig, or "not in aviation anymore?" Seems only fair, as some of the retirees seem to simply hang around to b*tch about scabs, diminished pensions, and the ubiquitous management losers...which definitely can be construed as a gripe about how "aviation failed" these unfortunates. Get rid of 'em all...what's good for the goose most assuredly must be good for the gander.;)

I suppose that should also apply to Corp Pilot's Mr 2 dots!

After all the Website is "Airline" Pilot Central.

Whats good 4 the goose................;)

At least he's not a "yes" man.

Cutting it a bit thin with the APC name, Mr Red. After all, there are forums for military, corporate, and even cargo.:eek: And, to think, here we are posting in the Major section...guess since we're still in aviation we are due some slack from the stricture of the Triple 7 dude/dudette's supplication to Skyhigh. Besides, it's too much fun. We are all humored by the politics of the union/management battles, ex-pats who fashion themselves as a 2006 version of Terry and the Pirates, apparently middle-aged divorcees who coyly string along anonymous internet Lotharios, and occasionally, even some good, hard information. I'll soon be 59, so I'll stick around for about another year.

SkyHigh
 

Thank you to all,

I value every post especially the opposition. I understand that I might be a blight to many peoples reality but my intentions are to provide an honest representation of the down side of aviation. I am sorry to have rained on the parade but a forum is a place to share ideas in an open venue.

SkyHigh

The URL www.pilotcentral.com was taken otherwise we would have grabbed it (although the owners of that domain offer to sell it to us on a regular basis).

The "airline" moniker is a misnomer, it's all about "pilot's helping pilot's" no matter where we are in the career. As long as it's legal and civil, and at least tangentially related to aviation then it's fair game.

you guys take sky ,way too personal, lighten up ,this is still a democracy ,the last time i checked anyway...

No! No! Sky we all love u, granted ur a bit difficult 2 love, anyway looks like 2-dots-slow:D is moving towards unseating u as the boards guru on gloom-doom- and dubious immigration practices lol.:rolleyes:

You might want to check again. We do not live in a democracy and never have. This is a democratic republic. You get to vote for people (representitives) who make decisions (legislate) for you. They say if you repeat something enough times, people will start to believe it. If the "this" you were referring to was not our form of government but this forum, then it would be a dictatorship as the APC moderators dictate the rules. Words have meaning and are much more effective if used properly.;)

moan
 

quote from 2-dots-slow "I'll soon be 59, so I'll stick around for about another year".[/QUOTE]
OH NO NO!!! tell me ur 59 un 3/4`s so we the legal immigrants, (oh and the 12,000,000 illegal don furgit dem:eek:) will be rid of u:p

Don't agree with about 1/2 of what Sky has to say, but the other 1/2...100%.
He tells it like it is. Some guy with high aspirations about flying for some big airline, making tons of $, needs to be told how it is in today's industry. Should that guy spend $100k to go to some pilot mill (and that's just what they are), just to end up at regionals for the rest of his life, or does he take the chance? Sky gives it to him straight.

SkyHigh
 

Well, well my friend...looks like you have found yourself as the focal point of dissention once again :D .

I for one like SkyHigh's posts. He is a worthy opponent. No, at times, I do not wish to brain wrestle with him, however, he does bring a realism to this forum.

Btw, ole friend...talked the flight school thing over with my ex and she says she is behind me all the way. I did bring up some of the issues that you have pointed out on this forum and she says it is a risk that we will take together.;)




atp

Who would everyone have to pick on if Skyhigh wasn't here? 2Dot, we're just a ray of sunshine today aren't we?...:) I'm a middle age divorcee and I've checked my strings for some anonymous internet lotharios, but alas my strings came up empty.:D You must be speaking of someone else!

Hi skygirl 2 . . is just trying for attention after all he seems to have ended up low-n-slow:D

Actually, my point was directed to those who by some holier-than-thou self-proclaimation, invite others to leave these discussions. I digress...you're probably correct about the "someone else" scenario. (Geez, lots of arios going around this thread.):D I certainly mean no disrespect toward any M-A-D, especially you. Your posts have been witty, informative, and pretty much from the cuff. Keep the good stuff coming, I enjoy it. And, I'm really not a grouch...bit of a cynic, but not a grouch.

Thanks Again !!
 

Thanks again to all. I will try not to dissapoint. :)


SKyHigh

I haven't paid much attention to SKYHIGH's posts. However, from what I understand he is in business for himself. He is building his network which he is in control of, everybody else works at their job in somebody else's network (your airline).

SkyHigh and 2dots have just as much right to their opinion as you have to ignore said opinion.

For the most part, I disagree with everything that SkyHigh says. However, he takes the high road and posts an imporant side to the aviation industry. There are those that it doesn't work out for, he is one of them.

I also think it's important that people that are just starting out understand that there are no easy ways in this industry and there are no fast ways that work out in the long run and that you need to quit believing the hype in the magazine ads.

What it all boils down to, is do it because you enjoy it, not because you're looking for a quick way to get rich.

Im sorry
 

I would like to apologize for being so harsh on my first post. After, reading the replies and thinking about it a little bit; I agree with you guys. Although, I don't ever agree with Skyhigh; he is merely giving his perspective of the industry. Skyhigh's perspective and my perspective are obviously completely different. I see it completely different, because I know so many people in this industry who have been successful or are successful. My oldest so is a FO with FDX; his childhood best friend is a FO for AS. My youngest son is a captain at express jet. My youngest son has about 3 close friends who are FO's with major airlines( I know 2 of them are at CO). Maybe, my perspective is skewed; because, the majority of people I know in the industry are successful. Obviously, there are downsides to this industry. I feel that the upsides out weigh downsides, without a doubt. This is arbitrary, just my perspective.:) And of course, I have been fortunate enough to have an excellent career; I would not trade it for any other job in the world. Unless, I could have played football for the Kansas City Chiefs:D Or any NFL team for that matter. I guess I lied, I would have liked to play on the PGA tour too:D

There are definetly ups and downs in this industry. From those just starting out to those who have been in the business a lifetime. There are cycles to every business, but ours seems to be the most. With that, the negative views presented are helpful BUT one has to look at one's lifestyle and choices and see what fits.

My lifestyle and choices led me to not pursue a cockpit flying career, though I have a private license. My choice was a mixture of being in involved in the flying portion and the business aspect. With a Dispatcher license (we are required to take the ATP also), we flight plan over 70 flights per shift but are also involved in the business decisions working with management. I like being able to go home in the evening, set hours and good pay. We get to jumpseat whenever we want, which gives us plenty opportunity to observe cockpit operations. Flying recreational is far better for me.

Those who like to travel a lot, and visit different cities and fly from point A to point B, and the excitement of being in control of lots of lives...then by all means pursue that end of aviation. If your not married, or have kids, its a great way of life. Even if you are, and your better half understands that aspect, it can still work out.

All in all, it comes down to a lifestyle choice.

No worries 2Dot. I kind of like that [B]M-A-D[B]moniker though. I hadn't seen that before. Maybe I should put it on my business card, after my name...:D

I definitely appreciate the value of diverse view points. We all face adversity and hard times, however I think our attitudes in tough times are what really govern the outcomes.

I understand SkyHigh's plight, however he reminds me of that guy you sit next to in the cockpit who won't stop bitching. We've heard it. Any pilot who flies in a two pilot operation has undoubtedly heard all the crap there is within the first month in that position. I respect the idea that aspiring pilots should be aware of the downfalls, but recently it seems there is an abundance of negativity.

We as pilots have an office with the best view in the world. You hear people talking about "the corner office". we have a view on three sides! And instead of being on the 50th floor, often were on the 1500th! We get to see natural phenomena like T-storms up close. Beautiful sensets. The list goes on.

Many desk jockies have to constantly look busy and are under close scrutiny of a boss. We are allowed to spend a good chunk of our time relaxing and taking the view in. I think maybe the great amount of time we are allotted to just talk to our coworkers is the reason so many pilots have over-developed opinions about everything.

I love flying. Maybe I'm that guy everybody gets mad at. I'd do this job for way less. 70 to 120 Grand to be a regional captain!! Sweet! I don't know many other careers in which with merely a college degree you can easily be make around 100 thousand dollars a year at age 30 and still have a lot more room to go.

Its awesome to have all sides of the story, but it isn't like the negative side is never told. In fact anymore I don't really hear the positive side being told that often. Skyhigh and company do have valid points, but like CO777Driver said: (in the most polite and respectful tone possible) Give it a rest!

I think you said it right kid

I decided a few weeks ago not to waste the keystrokes and my energy on SkyLow. I think I'll get my final jab in and then go back to lurking.

Diversity is a good thing. And all of the negative jabs at the airline industry may be well deserved and need a spokesperson. SkyLow is as good as anyone for that job on this forum. Where he and I part company, seriously part company, is when he drags family into his argument. I'm an airline pilot therefore I must have neglected/abused/not considered/fill in your own term, my wife and sons. He has a nasty habit of doing it frequently even though he has no idea what the situation might be. And as I've written quite a few times now, in this environment it's not his or anybody else's business what kind of relationship I have with my family and how I have controlled (or not controlled) it. Period.

Wanna badmouth the industry? Drive on. Leave the personal stuff out of it.

I mostly agree with what Skyhigh has to say. We have similar priorities as far as family goes. I think his comments are valuable, especially to the bright-eyed bushy-tailed nuggets who think they may never end up married with children and then find themselves rethinking their goals and priorities when they do end up taking that road.

Someone made a comment about loving to fly, well, I think that isn't the issue for Skyhigh...it is making everything fall into the proper order in your life that is the issue. He still loves to fly, just not to take all the crap that comes with the territory. And if you sit there and say there isn't any crap to look at in your office on the 1500th floor, you are probably one of the aforementioned bright-eyed and bushy-tailed.

He gives good perspective and I welcome his comments too.

Lighten up people!
 

I agree with 727c47, you all need to simply read and do not take what he may write as the bible of aviation. He has had his career and its was tough one with bad results to say the least which gives it a neg. view. "THAT IS HIS" life story. It does not mean you and I will end up in the same boat. Reality hurts but its true. Just be thankful your aviation career is better and more rewarding then his might have been for him. Keep you mind open and fly safe. Its his opinion just take it for that and do not take it personnally! If you can not, do not read his threads!

Thanks
 

Thanks to everyone here,

A lot has been said and I have read every post and am thankful for your opinions. CO777Driver mentioned how everyone that he knows has been enjoying a good career. One of my positions is that these days one really needs to be born into the job in order to be assured an easy ride. Perhaps it is no coincidence that all he knows are good times?

Ranger likes to criticize me for bringing family into the argument and it seems to me that they are often short changed in pursuit of the career. I feel justified in reminding pilots of the price they often pay. I agree with Ranger and believe that one in twenty make it to a good position in this industry. A simple introduction at a barbecue can make all the difference but if you are on the outside looking in it can be devastatingly disappointing and frustrating. Out of my peer group of over 30 pilots I can honestly say that more were killed in the attempt than those who made it to a major airline.

It would seem that I am a rarity but I would say that ex-pilots surround us everyday, they install fences, are business owners, plumb our homes and work in offices. My opinion is that they outnumber the successful by a powerful margin. I have many friends who sit quietly in cubicles never telling a sole about their past as a bush pilot or in night cargo. The shame of disappointment keeps them anonymous.

It is easy to assume that everyone who signs up eventually reaches their goal, but nothing could be farther from the truth. My mission is to speak for them.

SkyHigh

:eek:

AHHHHH!!! Massive comma splice! NOOOOO..... ;)

just messing with ya...

-Forest

Oh, for Pete's sake, have you no shame? Maybe you could approach a publisher about writing those trashy ladies romance novels. You certainly have a flair for the pseudo-dramatic, and it apparently doesn't embarrass you to put it in writing.

We all have times when we need to get over ourselves, but I doubt this has honestly ever occurred to you.

Never
 

Never !!!

Thanks RS


SkyHigh