UAL Ordering 150 Airplanes?
 

From the WSJ

(Reuters) - UAL Corp's (NasdaqGS:UAUA - News) United Airlines has asked Boeing Co (NYSE:BA - News) and Airbus (Paris:EAD.PA - News) to propose competing bids for up to 150 new airliners, the Wall Street Journal reported on its website.


The deal could be worth more than $10 billion for the two aircraft makers, the paper said.

By asking for competing bids, UAL Corp is hoping to obtain better terms than might otherwise be available, the paper said, citing people familiar with the situation.

(Reporting by Ajay Kamalakaran in Bangalore; Editing by Muralikumar Anantharaman)

Just in time for our contract negotiations... shocker. I'll believe it when I'm sitting in one of them.

Airline ordering airplanes, means nothing. As fast as they order them they defer them due to economic reasons.

I really hope UAL takes delivery of them.

Ya... I'll believe it when I see it! UAL management ACTUALLY wanting to expand the airline? Sounds too good to be true!

As important as how many they are ordering is how many they are retiring.

It's about time. I see B787's and B737NG's en mass coming in 2010-2015

Sounds about right if anything. Unfortunately this probably won't be growth (or I guess a better term is "reversal of shrinkage"). Probably more CAL fleet alignment with 787's, 777-300's, 737-900's, etc.

************************************************** *******************************

UAL Corp's (UAUA - News) United Airlines has asked Boeing Co (BA - News) and Airbus (Paris:EAD.PA - News) to propose competing bids to supply up to 150 new airliners, the Wall Street Journal said on its website on Thursday.

The deal could be worth more than $10 billion for the two aircraft makers, the paper said.
United sent a formal request to Boeing and Airbus on Tuesday, the paper said, citing people familiar with the matter.
The request focuses on replacing many of the 111 aircraft in United's wide-body fleet, as well as some of its 97 aging Boeing 757 narrow-body planes, the sources told the paper.
United could sign a major order as early as the fall if Boeing or Airbus agree to certain conditions, the paper said.
However, the financing arranged by the manufacturer that doesn't eat into United's cash would be the most crucial, the paper said, citing people familiar with the matter.
United has hired aviation consulting firm Seabury Group LLC to help it negotiate with the plane makers, the paper said.
A spokesman at Airbus said he was not aware of this particular deal but added the firm was talking to its customers all the time.
Reuters could not immediately reach United or Boeing for comments outside regular hour

When was the last year United made money?

Where is the $10 billion coming from? ....The employees again?

Don't get me wrong. I have a a couple friends pounding the pavement at UAL and would like to see them back at work. 150 airplanes just sounds improbable. Go big or go home I guess.

Be afraid, be VERY afraid. These are the a**h*** that are primarily responsible for the 717 lease debacle at MidEx and the driving force behind trying to GUT our contract. Their tentacles reach back to Lorenzohttp://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...cons/icon8.gif

They have to put in an order some time unless they just want to run old airplanes until they shutter the doors from mismanagement. Nothing says they have to start taking airframes soon, but ordering is easy and ordering now may very well actually be a rare piece of good management if they can get better deals than they could before. Boeing and Airbus are getting lots of cancellations so they may be in the mood to cut some better deals. There also isn't anything that says United has to sign on the dotted line if they don't get terms the terms they want now. I doubt the current management group will be around by the time deliveries are actually made and I wish the employees luck on flying them for a viable airline that the current jokers in management seem to be doing their best to destroy.

Actually, after listening to Glenn-2 N's little tidbit this morning, I now actually believe we will order and take delivery of those airplanes. He will park 200, and buy 150. Sounds just like business as usual at good ole' UAL.

Don't worry I'm sure this pilot group will happily give up another 30 or 40% to pay for it all.;)

You don't ask Airbus for airplanes as part of fleet alignment with CAL.

But you do if you are trying to leverage two suppliers against each other to get a better price...

I heard the orders were a combined order from the Aurora, Revelle, and Monogram aircraft model companies... assembly required and batteries not included.:D

Bingo. I think I remember Delta doing the same thing in the last year or so even though it's no secret they seem to have a big hard on for 777's.

Back when UAL went on their Airbus ordering spree, Boeing was not "too happy" about that....."first time shame on me, second time shame on you" comes to mind if UAL is going to try and pit the "Boeing vs Airbus" rematch this time around. Besides, UAL is no where near the financial position they were years back when ushering such a deal as they did with their Buses.

Will be interesting to see how pitting the two aircraft manufactures will be this time. CAL's relationship with Boeing without a doubt was established when Gordon came over to CAL years back from Boeing....something that CAL has worked are to maintain thus being an all Boeing Fleet.


Besides Seabury possibly being the "consultant" on the deal, has anyone heard intel on who is going to be financing this order???....No secret, not a really easy to just secure this type of order as it was in the past....especially when Glenn's at the helm.:eek:

Time will tell...:cool:

As many have pointed out, an important metric for pilots is total fleet size.

Doing the math on this reported order, the net United fleet size will be less than it now, and about a third of what it was 10 years ago. The gutting of United as an aircraft operator continues.

this quite is from another forum, but it does apply to ALL pilots negotiating a CBA:

Anyone recognize these guys?
Seabury APG | Profiles Main

Didn't UAL just write down a big downpayment on A320 options?

Bloomberg story


Cheers
George

That was from three years ago. Not sure what happened since then. I'm sure Airbus would discount that loss to UAL if given the opportunity, plus some.

And why would they do that....quit being so negative dude.

Can United make it?
 

Other than some company buying them how can united make it? They have shrunk so much there route structure has to suffer.

DAL was down and out a few years ago as well. Our management team under Leo Mullins did a textbook job of ruining a great brand. During BK, our management team restructured and we got some incredible people - Glen Hauenstein and Bob Cortelyou. They completely redid our network and in my opinion were the two most responsible for DAL's turnaround.

My point is that UAL could turnaround if given competent management and sword that the employees could rally behind. Under Tilton's tenure its unlikely. But a new team could definitely take advantage of what I believe is the best Hub network of any legacy and make it shine again.

Time will tell, but DAL is a vastly different beast now than we were four years ago.

The "announcement" yesterday, I am sure is just another piece of the puzzle coming together....interesting that this fall is when the order is to take place...the same time CAL officially enters the STAR alliance...and CAL has the orders for the narrowbodies. If in the end a merger takes place....everything will be in order when it is announced.

This is not by chance this time frame is the way it is.

united route structure
 

Delta has the best route structure not United. They used to have 10,000 pilots and will be down to 5500. They are Smaller than SWA.

And I suppose you can't see how if they were to merge that they cannot come in looking too big.....think about it. Add UAL and CAL...what do you come up with?...11,300.

Similar to the numbers at DAL AFTER the merger.

Lets make one thing clear....

UAL did not order a single airframe.

With the US currency devaluation Boeing will get the upper hand. And if they are not pitting Boeing against Airbus then they are not being "good" businessmen.

2007 to answer your question.....

No they did not place an order. However, to believe that this is the "first" time the company and the manufacturers are entering into talks would be extremely naive. Much like the auto industry, the airframe manufacturers are in search of orders. This buying in the trough and taking delivery in the peak is a good strategy and hopefully we will see the airplanes on the ramp at some point.

At this point in time I don't think there are any other major US carriers with bids on 150 airplane orders? Certainly not CAL. This will hopefully be a all encompassing change for UAL and perhaps set some new standards for mainline flying in the future with a narrowbody refreshment coming afterwards.

Perhaps this is my misconstrued concept, but at UAL we have had some large sine curves in the past few years of bad and good news. In fact the dips probably out pace the peaks. Why is it impossible to enjoy the moment and perhaps think positively about our future for 5 minutes without be cast upon by those that think all good news is wrapped in bad.

I would think anyone that is at CAL could appreciate a turnaround. Look at the history of CAL and there are some signifcant close calls with extinction. The right leadership was able to correct what was one of the worse carriers in existence. Good for you guys climbing out of the grave. Why not allow someone else to do the same?

L

Negotiations are in progress. I honestly believe that the next thing we hear from management is that we can't afford to take delivery of these new airplanes unless the pilot contract isn't too expensive, or maybe that the new planes will have to be flown by an alter-ego airline with new pilots.

Joe

United
 

Do you read marketwatch?

You can read?:)

Nope...not yet. I don't think anyone said they did.

And that is why they must join the STAR alliance or extinction may be a very REAL possibility. They were going to have to join an alliance somewhere....they decided on STAR and United.....period.

flame baite

Yeah......It had nothing to do with Lufthansa and their invitation.

L....

I understand your points in the wake of some "positive/good news" on the UAL campus, I'm sure this is some welcomed news to the pilot group over your way.

In reading on this forum, and some other posting sources, some thoughts have brought up the idea "Can UAL secure financing on such a bold order during the present state"??.....or "Is this a ploy to come to the pilot group to ask for further 'cuts' in using these orders as a negociation carrot in contract developments"? Who knows the real answers to these question, but they could honestly be valid questions/concerns to keep in mind as the pie in the sky is relished.

Your commnet in regard to aircraft orders..."Is there any other Major Carrier with bids out on 150 aircraft"?? Good point, but as others on this forum are quick to point out, orders mean NOTHING. You can order all day long, but until the call of V1, rotate with UAL painted on the side means nada. Your are CORRECT in saying CAL does NOT have 150 on order, but I can sure as certain tell you CAL HAS been taking delivery of their NG's....their "V1, Rotate" smell test has passed too :cool: The deliveries have replaced some of the older platforms, no doubt there (Not dramatically increasing over all fleet size). These deliveries have been coming steadyso for 36+ months and going. We are also getting more 777's to be delivered later this year, and into next year as well.....In the end, a company can ORDER all you want....just show me the deliveries. bringing to fruition the full equation.

Agreed.....your company's success is tied largely to the leadership. When Gorden and his team arrived years back, CAL was in horrible shape bar none!!!:confused: Can UAL, or any other carrier do so with the proper leadership, I DONT see why not. Hanging one's hat on 150 aircraft orders will right UAL's direction, I see that as being hard to believe.....why put the cart infront of the horse??? I dont know too many people that would be comfy with Glenn at the helm trying to right the ship. If UAL is going to make the turn around like some carriers have done in the past.....ordering aircraft with a SOUND plan can very well be the start UAL needs, but 'you' BEST look beyond Glenn running the show.

Best of luck and keep the faith.

SC

[quote=contrail67;623881]And that is why they must join the STAR alliance or extinction may be a very REAL possibility. They were going to have to join an alliance somewhere....they decided on STAR and United.....period.[/quote]

Wow...beyond narrow minded....there is A LOT more to the Star than UAL:cool:

know

jusst laffing at yore spellyng in yore posts