I have an enormous amount of respect for the current administration. They have a very difficult job ahead of them. I apologize if my verbage implied something else.

The difference between airline bankruptcies and auto bankruptcies is the US government is providing tens of millions in DIP financing and ensuring organized labor gets significant ownership in the reorganized companies.

I wish the airlines were so lucky. Which was my point. Will the government largess continue if the airlines get in trouble again or was it a one time good deal for the auto companies and the UAW?

I was hoping for a non political discussion of the policy issues as they relate to the current macro environment. Perhaps, that is not possible given the very real emotions out there. Could we get a ruling from the moderator on this? Have we crossed the line? close to it? In lieu of a moderator ruling, I will avoid even any policy issues. I apologize for violating any TOS.

Greg

 

Peace. No sweat. My post probably contained a bit too much bile...

Sorry.

Anyway, as much as I have a love/hate/love relationship with this industry, I hope there are no bailouts. A helping hand is one thing. But a bailout is something else.

That said, seeing as sitting idly by as a company which employs (directly) as many as 50,000 workers can't be seen as good. But guess what? The world will still turn.

We have seen some trimming of fat at most companies and throughout the industry. Not only in the form of jobs, but some companies which no longer exist, thus lessening capacity.

We'll see what happens. I am not a crusader for SWA, but I have huge respect for how they are run as a company and I feel that any airline that doesn't use SWA as their model of efficiency (even if they try another business model) is in a losing battle.

There is so much fat and inefficiency in the industry as a whole and I'd hate to see my tax dollars going to support that. I hope it doesn't come to that.

 

Mod note:

I don't see any problem with TOS at this thread. When people start bashing one party or the other, that's where I draw the line.

 

I think the government should bailout the airlines.

The reason being that with the auto bailout the US took partial control. Airlines need that. The FAA can step in and a ground a whole fleet. Look at american and their MD80s. The gov't can reroute aircraft, close airports, change procedures or requirements. The other day I was flying into EWR and Joe Biden was flying in. All of new york space was shut down for over an hour. We went low enough on fuel we almost had to divert along with at least 10 others on our freq alone. No telling how many other aircraft out there were just burning money. I know I heard a Speedbird out there. Anyway wit the government able to simply alter an airlines operations it's no wonder they can't make money. The amount of fees the airlines pay is complete BS considering how many people they employ in the area. If the airlines get a giant boost from the public and the gov't takes ownership maybe that will be the one thing needed to have them re-regulated.

On the other hand I can only imagine that the airlines were hedging their butts off when oil was in the $30s. Not saying they don't need help in the long run but I'm willing to bet they'll make more money off their new hedges then they would off regular flights.

 

I am wary of China but not worried. China NEEDS the U.S. to be strong. If not their growth plunges and if that happens they are in enormous trouble. China has also managed to effectively destroy their natural resources over the past 30 years. If you take a "green GDP" figure for them (which is GDP growth minus the cost to clean up their environment) then they have hardly grown at all.

I am reading a book right now called "China Shakes the World." I HIGHLY reccomend it if you are looking to read up on the Chinese economy and how it affects us.

 

The auto industry leaders/executives were also portrayed as dinosaurs who sealed their companies fate in the last decade.

Last time I checked, the media has no negative portrayal of airline executives. Just a few months ago, one of the major networks was singing the praises of Arpey. Look at the recent press release of United + Aer Lingus....it was a positive spin by the media outlets that picked up on it.

If airlines are going to get bailed out, the executives who brought the airlines to where they are should be shown for what they are. Almost everyone discussion I have with non-aviation folks re veal they are under the impression that all pilots are bringing down 6 figures and only flying a few days a month. If airlines require bailouts, its going to be the pilots, mechanics and flight attendants portrayed as the reason it went down.

It'd be nice if airlines were forced to squeeze from a management (non-bargained for) perspective. From what I hear, all the mainline carriers are bloated with middle level management who seeks to build empires. "Whats that? We need a new website for X? Yes, I'll need 4 full-time headcounts please".

 

Absolutely...think this is a dead career pre-bailout? I'd hate to see it post...

 

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