What? Esqueeze me?

The ones that cannot afford it are the ones who have simple things like a house, a wife and maybe a kiddo or two.

23K a year, or even 50K as one person pointed out would not cut it. If this gets bad, it is time for a new industry.

Oh, we'll get thrown under the bus. Had a DAL-N 320 CA in the jumpseat that told us retiree health care premiums were more important than the 76-seat issue. He was such an idiot that I couldn't even respond. He then went on blabbering about how he should have gotten a dynamic list so that us DAL-S guys wouldn't benefit from the DAL-N retirements. He was talking to himself most of the time.

You can't afford it if you don't live with your parents. I'll take it a step further.

We have some selfish 8ssholes working here. He's upset because he won't reach his coveted 747 captain seat. He doesn't care about the 76-seat issue because he is senior enough to be gone before it would affect him. Why should he care if it f*cks the entire profession after he's gone?

Seems to be a recurring theme in this part of aviation...this attitude seems to rear its ugly head far too often.

There's something to be said for leaving things in better shape than you found them...for others too.

You should have told him to put a sock in it (put nicely for the mods):cool:

It's all about me, me, me. I can't stand guys like that, no matter what "side" they are from. :cool:

Here comes another loan from RAH to Delta to acquire more E-jets for some J4Js maybe:confused:

or was this rumor for United... we'll see

SCOPE limitations still apply and thus makes this not a possibility at DAL. ;)

There is a J4J rumor for DAL. Ya know CPS being sold to RAH and allowing more 76 E 175/190 so the furloughees can fly em.

I much prefer to be on the street.

If alpa agrees to this, again, they need to get booted!!

I said it was a rumor, noting substantial. Yet.

ALPA cannot control the sale.

I know but they can enforce the contract and ensure that more jobs arent outsourced though.

Bingo! I agree 100%, if Moak throws you guys under the bus again with scope, it would be in your best interest to send him packing.

IF IF.

I hope it does not happen, but we all can have a lot of fun before hitting the street. We will still have a vote.

It would be nice to know the total plan prior to hitting the street. IE for the OCT MEC meeting.

bottom line is None of us know for sure whats going to happen, so to say furloughs are or arent going to happen is just dumb. I'm going to start making plans now just incase but only time will tell.

I still think the company will make other attempts at furlough mitigation before they drop bombs. They've done this everytime thus far so i dont see why people think they'll just ruin all those efforts by just dropping the hammer now. We have only offered one PIRP (likely will offer another round), we havent lowered maxes or offered leaves yet. i believe they'll do thatt first then drop the hammer if things stay bad. We'll see

Agree.

Im sure furloughs could be justified; however, we (DS) still has 07 guys on the ER in JFK. Furloughs would be a huge mess with furloughing guys off of ER's. The training bubble for this would make the 2001 scenario seem like a picnic.

Relax guys, until you get a letter telling you not to come to work it's not that bad. Even then it's not that bad.

Im on the chopping block also, it's not too bad having a couple of months of prep time before dealing with something that I have no direct control over. I suppose I should have been preparing for this more "head on" for about a year now....but, late is better than never!

And there are many, many other options. It's a flea market out there!!

Also, it's worst case scenario. No sense in losing sleep either way.

Actually I think 08' guys are hanging on as well. Don't see how this would effect anything though. In fact it would probably make it easier.

If we are going to be displacing off the 7ER (as is sounds) these guys could possibly go straight from the 7ER to the street without a stop on another piece of equipment (no need to train them for their new position or their replacement).

Not nailing the coffin shut that this is going to happen, just pointing out I don't think that particular point matters.

We're jumpin the gun till we hear something.

Guys,

I was furloughed in 01....just came back a year ago after deferring for a year. This is sounding (sadly) eerily familiar. This sucks.

Correct.
They would just need to train a few positions on the 88 and 73N.

Wow. A seven year furlough, with only one year added for a 1 year deferral. That IS food for thought.

Everyone take a deep breath - it is way too early to be talking furlough. Consider the following:

1) The down turn has to be considered more than short term to furlough - based on all previous models we are still short next summer

2) We will not know the results of the PRIP until mid-July

3) There a BUNCH of voluntary staffing mitigation programs used in the past that have not even been discussed yet - SLIP, PML, VL, VF, etc, not to mention reduced ALV's. They can also sweeten the PRIP to nab more as well.

If and when all those have been exhausted, AND they are still overstaffed, and the capacity reduction needs to be more permanent we might see the dreaded F.

At this point it would be a guillotine where they need a scalpel.

JMO....

I see your point, but they would have furlough around 350 or 400 on the same bid to do this. There are a lot of MD88 people in that bottom 350-400. Although they are cutting back, there is the need to still fly that plane. Either way you cut it, it would take a LOT of training to do so.

And it would seem to me since most of the reduction is international WB flying they would be doing some serious MD88 training.

Hopefully it won't have the same result. :( :(

Exactly!! Well put

I'm just curious how many guys who were ready to pull the trigger are now going to wait to see if the company sweetens the pot.

Yeah, all of that. Plus, we have a NO-Furlough clause. :D

Correct. The point was being made that it would somehow be a bigger mess if 7ER guys were being furloughed verses any other junior F/O. My point is it doesn't matter what they are flying. They'll be gone and someone will need to be retrained whether it is a 7ER or a 73N or a MD88.

It actually makes it easier to furlough a junior person off of the ER because if they were senior you'd have to retrain them on another piece of equipment. I'm not saying any of the 7ER guys are in any more danger than anyone else, I'm just pointing out that the reasoning was flawed.

The only issue is that there aren't 300 or so junior guys on the ER. Maybe a few dozen. The vast majority of the furlough targets are already on the -88, so displacements and training will still be required.

Nevermind...you guys seem to be missing that I was responding to the below post. We are saying the same thing. Displacements and training are completely unavoidable...that is pretty obvious. I'm just pointing out a few junior guys on the ER will not change the company's plans which is contrary to Freebird's post.

The ER in NYC has 08 hires from the Feb class. I think the line is just at the top of the Feb class. It could be mid way through the Jan class. The rest have moved down to the 73 or the 88.

For now, anyway. Time will tell.

Oh I know. I fully expect to be displaced off the ER soon. Stuff happens. In this environment I'll be happy to still be employed. I hope I hang on long enough to fly with you, though. That should be a lively cockpit, both of us singing our football songs. Maybe we can fly to Madrid and see the new Galacticos!

I don't think he even flies for Mother DAL. I think he is former TWA, & suffered through that terrible ordeal. I understand why he has such pessimistic views.

Anyone know the exact training footprint for the pilots being displaced to the 88 if they've already flown it?

Getting 300 hours of 88 time, spending two years on a 767ER, then passing a 88 check ride with no training is not going to be a lot of fun. Do they at least give you some CBT and procedures trainer time?

First Officer XXX it is common knowledge that those CBT trainers are available to you, the Delta Pilot, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. All you need is you ID to get in to the building. ;)

Before you reply with "you have the , DAL Airway Manual Operations Specifications, Volumes 1, Volume 2, Flight Crew Training Manual, Flight Operations Manuals, Operations Bulletins, Electronic Bulletins, Cut and Paste's, Green Pages, Line Check Airmen's publications, Checklists, Quick Reference Guides, Flight Operations Bulletins and the Fleet Captain's Phone Number to get prepared on your own time while completing training on the airplane you are currently training on", let me comment that the 88 CPT Trainers are locked, I would not know what to do with one if it was sitting in front yard tied to a car battery and I was hoping for something more structured than throwing darts at sagging flight control surfaces, maybe at least as much structure as the wait line at Spondivits.

Also, before you say it, I do have a good attitude :) and don't fear the Douglas for being a POS assembled by Long Beach residents without any engineering, or planning, who's idea of "fit and finish" was "ah heck, lets just finish."

ACL65, See you there ;)