i must be one of the few pax that doesn't mind the nickel and diming. i pay for my fare knowing what i am going to get. if i need to check a bag i pay the fee. on the times i don't check a bag i don't pay. why this is a surprise to travelers these days is a mystery. just don't try and cram it all in a carry on that you can't lift into the overhead and then ask me to help you.

so they charge you for a heavy bag. don't pack too much crap. you know it's going to get weighed. and so you don't get a meal on the plane - do you REALLY want an airplane meal?

people should realize they just paid $99 and that doesn't even cover the 2 pilots and FA salary. airlines don't see any of the other taxes charged (security fee, airport improvement fee, etc) on the fare.

and whoever posted the car rental comparison - now there is real gouging. rant over. carry on

 

Interesting how the article doesn't mention Spirit that actually started ancillary revenue practices in the US. Other airline personnel laughed at them when they started charging for soda's, snacks, bags and seats. They've made money so far in this crisis and everybody is following suit. Who's laughing now?

 

Assume a three day trip (two in city) to within 10-12 hours driving.

Driving with a rental car:

4x$65/day 260
plus two hotels at $100 night $200
gasoline $80
$540 toal

Flying
Airfare $120
Airport parking $20
Car rental in major city $80/day 2 x days $160
Gasoline $30
Hotel 100
$430

For the extra $110 I'll drive.

 

That is the way the market is supposed to work. The US Government however, has so screwed up the marketplace that normal business models don't work. Take your above example and juxtapose that with the reality of US Air and other carriers that entered BR. The BR laws allowed them to survive when the market had spoken. (i am talking pre 9/11, after that the rules understandably changed.) Also the barriers to entry for the many low cost start ups were so low that any cut in capacity to strengthen one's yield was quickly replaced by a money losing start up resulting in further price pressure.

Now this policy of deregulation and easy credit has benefited the US consumer to a great degree and added to the overall economy. It has hurt the legacy carriers who have high fixed costs. Not all of the industries woes are due to poor management.

 

It's wrong when....

The plane trip costs less than the taxi ride to the airport

The plane trip costs less than the parking lot fee for the car
(for the week)

The gas burned by the plane cost twice as much as the salary of the entire crew... In other words, the company pays more for gas, than for us. (could you imagine a cab driver, or bus driver, being paid less than the cost of the fuel his/her vehicle used in one hour)...

 

I hope some of you don't get me wrong here. I understand that air travel can be a real value- that there are costs that go unpaid. My business is competitive, the airline business is hypercompetitive. The internet has not helped ANY business maintain margin or value; but it's fair to say the airline business is impacted more harshly than others.

That said- what does any pilot get? What they negotiate. At some debatable level, airline management has a financial limit. At this time that limit seems low. I'll say it again, the market sets the value in the transaction.

My point is, for trips up to 12 hours driving, based on what I do, and the value of my time, I'm often disincentivized to flying. I'm a realistic air traveler, but that's a potential issue for your industry. Are people like me a large portion of your business, probably not. Are we the proverbial "canary in the coal mine?" Perhaps.

Things to improve-

TSA- a bunch of blue window dressing- use real cops and real security.
Service- don't complain about how much you don't make justiofying bad service- get another job.
In-flight- is it really too much for soda and pretzels with smile? And I have paid for inflight food, enjoyed it, and thought it's a fair value.

When I get to the airport early and get schwacked for $50 to "help" the airline move pershible inventory, well it stings. Again, I understand it is an opportunity for revenue, but it is another reason to drive when I can.

Unbundled fees- I'm no big fan. I can see why, but again, to me, it's a disincentive.

 

I'm not sure what profession, job or reason you are traveling is... but the majority of the business world discovered long ago that the 24 hours of pay for you to drive yourself out and back is alone more than the ticket and associated costs to fly you out that morning, and home again at the end of day two.

It all depends upon how much value is placed on YOUR time. If the value of your time is very little, by all means drive. If the value of your time is high, then you are costing yourself money in the long run by driving. If the value of your time is extremely high, I would suggest Netjets or FlightOptions to pick you up closer to home/work and get you closer to your destination on your schedule. If your time is so valuable that you don't even waste the time trying to calculate it, then by all means purchase your own jet. I'll be happy to help find you a full time crew.

Thanks for visiting the APC forums. I think we see your point.

 

I utilized my first grade reading skills and went to book a ticket on United Airlines on-line. In particular, I was looking to see if I would be informed of the specific baggage charges or of the 5$ counter fee.

First, your "additional baggage charges may apply" - that statement has always been on the ticket. In the past, that meant additional charges for overweight bags, for extra bags (past the 2nd bag), etc. But now, ALL BAGS will be charged, but the quote is still "ADDITIONAL baggage charges MAY apply" - that is not quite so clear. The policy changed, the charges increased, but the statement on the ticket stayed the same?

I clicked on the "Fare Rules" link - no mention of the baggage fees. I clicked on the "view ticket price breakdown" link (the only other one provided) - it listed facility charges, taxes, etc but no baggage fees. So, during the entire purchase process, there was no readily available explanation of all of the fees that I would have to pay - even though I tried to find them.

As a matter of fact, there was no link that led to a direct explanation of the baggage fees (again, a fee for EVERY checked bag) or anything that would lead me to believe that I would have to pay an additional $5 to declare those checked bags at the counter.

In the interest of full disclosure, I was able to find a breakdown of the charges. I had to click on "Services and Information", then I had to click on "Baggage", then on "Checked Baggage", then finally "US/Canada Checked Baggage". Do me a favor and follow those links, and decide if you would have picked those links (they certainly don't make the path obvious) to find out what additional fees would apply if I had not laid them out here. Besides, why would I think the baggage fees would be different than they have always been unless something on the purchase process led me to think that?

That, unfortunately, is what I would consider coming dangerously close to deceptive marketing or trade practices. It isn't illegal, but it is worthy of the complaints that the customers are making. Charge what you wish, but tell me upfront what I will have to pay.

 

Mason- I WISH I could justify NETjets or Citationshares, etc. And I see your point as well- time is money. When it makes sense, I'll pay to fly. Every business is cost constrained at some level. My company tends to be overly fixated on non-fixed costs, mostly travel. I don't agree with it and won't go into the myriad readons why, but they are. And again, I can see customer to and from and others can't- so that's a special case.

I suppose my overall point is I don't see the airlines or any specific carrier really doing much to attract and keep the business traveler (typically higher margin).

I sell large equipment systems($200K-$2 million). About 10 years ago I had an Internet company contact me at a trade show. They provide a website for reverse auctions (roughly similar to Orbitz if you will). I looked him straight in the eye and said, "You want me to sign up with you and then say I want to make the LEAST amount of money for this project?" "Ummm....well, ummm." If there was a polite way of saying GTHOH, I used it.

None of my competitors signed on in a big way, those companies that used it as purchaser were typically dissapointed for a number of reasons, and the internet company eventually melted away.

Maybe Jetblue and Southwest have it right.

Perhaps if the others could extricate themselves from the "fare-*horing" websites, they might do better.

 

Yep, they are trying to make money any way they can. I bet you still payed more for the taxi ride per mile and parking at the airport than for the plane ticket. Don't see you complaining about those fees.