Has anyone had an FO like this
01-11-2007, 01:21 PM
#51
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 616
Originally Posted by Jetjok
Sorry Brown, but I completely disagree with you. If you're the captain, and you have a f/o (or any other crewmember, for that matter) acting like a horses ass, it is absolutely, positively, your job to straighten that situation out. If the guys' a bad pilot, misses radio calls, does a poor job of crm, shows little or no regard for his/her fellow crewmembers, shows up needing a shave or deodorant, or any other non-endearing traits, you as the captain should bring this/these shortcomings to his attention.
Having said that, the real question is: how do I make this guy understand my displeasure with him? Debriefs can help, but he might just think you're being "hard" on him. Shame can help: while riding in on the crew bus, you could announce to everyone, "hey, you guys should meet my f/o, Joe Pilot, he missed almost 70% of the radio calls while flying today." I'd only use that technique if I hadn't missed my share of calls as well. Or you could mention to a friend, with your f/o in earshot, "do I look a little smaller? My f/o keeps slamming them down on his landings." Well, you get the idea. There are any number of ways to get his attention, the last of which might be to fill out a probationary report and ask him to check it for accuracy before you "turn it in." It seems to me that guys like this usually are very new in the business, and as such haven't been properly indoctrinated. This job is more about working and playing well together, than it is about flying an airplane. Most of us hired can do that.
As a captain, I believe it's our responsibility to help out the training department in the training of our first officers. Not by giving them flying lessons, but by leading by example, flying in a standard fashion, and discussing shortcomings or deviations from the "norm", with them. Both yours and theirs. I always used the end-of-flight debrief to discuss anything that happened during the flight, that was out of the ordinary, not to standard, or anything where we could have or should have learned something new.
If we as captains, fail to attempt to modify bad flying or bad behavior, as displayed by our flying partners, we in effect, just pass them along, warts and all, to the next captain. I believe that guys do want to fit in, and do want to fly a good jet. It's up to us to help them along. Just my opinion.
Having said that, the real question is: how do I make this guy understand my displeasure with him? Debriefs can help, but he might just think you're being "hard" on him. Shame can help: while riding in on the crew bus, you could announce to everyone, "hey, you guys should meet my f/o, Joe Pilot, he missed almost 70% of the radio calls while flying today." I'd only use that technique if I hadn't missed my share of calls as well. Or you could mention to a friend, with your f/o in earshot, "do I look a little smaller? My f/o keeps slamming them down on his landings." Well, you get the idea. There are any number of ways to get his attention, the last of which might be to fill out a probationary report and ask him to check it for accuracy before you "turn it in." It seems to me that guys like this usually are very new in the business, and as such haven't been properly indoctrinated. This job is more about working and playing well together, than it is about flying an airplane. Most of us hired can do that.
As a captain, I believe it's our responsibility to help out the training department in the training of our first officers. Not by giving them flying lessons, but by leading by example, flying in a standard fashion, and discussing shortcomings or deviations from the "norm", with them. Both yours and theirs. I always used the end-of-flight debrief to discuss anything that happened during the flight, that was out of the ordinary, not to standard, or anything where we could have or should have learned something new.
If we as captains, fail to attempt to modify bad flying or bad behavior, as displayed by our flying partners, we in effect, just pass them along, warts and all, to the next captain. I believe that guys do want to fit in, and do want to fly a good jet. It's up to us to help them along. Just my opinion.
Sorry but I disagree. The captain is compensated to move whatever is in the back of his machine from point A to point B. That's it. If the captain doesn't like his FO's personality, well that's just tough. If there is a problem with his flying that's a different story, but from what the original poster said the FO in question had "average" flying abilities.
The FO's opinions are just that, opinions. I hear all kinds of crap in cockpits day in and day out that I disagree with, but I just keep my mouth shut.
We're here to collect a paycheck by operating the equipment in the manner the company wants, that's all. Don't read more into it.
01-12-2007, 05:27 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 737NG CA
Posts: 766
Originally Posted by Browntail
Wall Street Journal
Why Some Passenger Pilots Take Huge Pay Cuts to Fly Cargo
By COREY DADE
June 2, 2006
Why Some Passenger Pilots Take Huge Pay Cuts to Fly Cargo
By COREY DADE
June 2, 2006
01-12-2007, 05:42 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,233
Originally Posted by CargoBob
Is it a small minority or common among the new civilian types?
My fo:
28 years
white male
breitling watch
brand new
average pilot skill
embry riddle/ flt instr/ RJs 5yrs / friend of family connection
He joked about the army troops in the arpt terminal, comparing them to TSA agents.
Criticized new hire classmates for taking mil leave during first year to go make more money in Iraq
After asking what I did b4 this, he stated and I quote, "I had an F-16 ANG slot if I wanted it, but, it would have slowed me down."
After the trip, I told him that he had some more to learn and should do more listening...and he thought it had to do w/ the airplane and listening up on the ATC radios!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????
The old civilian guys I flew w/ used to be very respectful about the mil and guys that had bad vision...atleast were respectful...I hope this is an isolated incident but other guys have been telling me the same story w/ other guys?? What is up?
My fo:
28 years
white male
breitling watch
brand new
average pilot skill
embry riddle/ flt instr/ RJs 5yrs / friend of family connection
He joked about the army troops in the arpt terminal, comparing them to TSA agents.
Criticized new hire classmates for taking mil leave during first year to go make more money in Iraq
After asking what I did b4 this, he stated and I quote, "I had an F-16 ANG slot if I wanted it, but, it would have slowed me down."
After the trip, I told him that he had some more to learn and should do more listening...and he thought it had to do w/ the airplane and listening up on the ATC radios!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????
The old civilian guys I flew w/ used to be very respectful about the mil and guys that had bad vision...atleast were respectful...I hope this is an isolated incident but other guys have been telling me the same story w/ other guys?? What is up?
I call them "generation success". Sadly too many of them around. Never had to work for anything and sheltered by parents from things "he could possibly fail in and it would break his heart" from very young age on.
Time will teach. Don't take them seriously until they change. Make them do their jobs.
01-13-2007, 09:45 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 138
Not all ERAU Grads are the same!
Originally Posted by ERAU1978grad
About $67,000 in interest payments alone spread over 20 years.
01-15-2007, 08:20 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 123
easy to take care of a guy like this.....id just laugh and go along with him and then ......when hes not expecting....do things to his coffee, headset etc.( of course nothing harmfull---just gross stuff ) ....get a hold of his toothbrush and clean a urinal with it and put it back in his bag :-) ......like I said ....easy to deal with this type of dude :-)
