SWA requirement for 737 type rating.
 

Okay quick question.

On the SWA page it states that they are hiring pilots w/o a 73 type rating, then states that the airline requires you to get the type rating within 6 months.

Is this standard practice for many LCC airlines?

I am under the impression that, if hired by a regional, that they will pay for your training and type rating in an RJ, etc. Now say I want to move to SWA and try to get picked up, but I don't have a 73 type rating. If the airline hires me, will they train me for it? (w/ pay. . .no PFT, I spit on PFT).

I guess this is kinda a general question that me, being a newb to all of this, will learn eventually. Just wondering if this is something that could also occur at say Air Tran or any other LCC?

Despite what the web page says, SWA will rarely even interview anyone who does not have the 737 type. I guess they have enough applicants willing to pay for it or who got one somewhere else...

Essentially all regionals, LCCs (except SWA), and majors in the US do not require you to buy aircraft-specific training. Some airlines do have a training contract to ensure you don't take their training and then quit in 3 months to go work elsewhere. There are also a few "pay for training" scams out there where very low-time pilots pay an airline or their affiliate flight school a large sum in exchange for training and a job.

Alright, appreciate the follow up. Was just wondering.

I wouldn't call it PFT, because they don't care how you get the type...ie, if you flew mil or at another airline that gave you the type you haven't paid for anything. The requirement does suck if you didn't go that route. My thought is that they use it as a weed out tool to see who really wants to work there. I do know 4-5 guys that were given job offers before getting the type but they were all check airman types or the like. Latest word from RK is that they won't be calling anymore non-typed pilots in because they need people going into the pool to be ready to go.

Appreciate it Slice. I'm obviously not in the position to even dream about working at SWA. . . lol.

Was just wondering if this was some sort of standard practice for entry level FO that are moving up from a regional.

SWA type rating
 

SWA requires the type because it lowers their insurance bill. Maybe there's other reasons but this is what I've been told by people in the know.

SWA does hire a fair amount of pilots without the type who then get the type and start class.

Anyone who is serious about flying for SWA should attend their company sponsored open house on Saturday June 10 in DAL. It is at the training center and begins at 8:00am.

Take care

S.B.

I finished a trip last month with a guy that was hired at SWA without a type rating. He got it prior to starting class and paid about $6k for it. More than worth it IMO, as he'll more than make it up jumping from regional CA to SWA FO after his first year.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it also cuts their new hire sim training in half - from about 40 hours of sim time to 20. If you already have the type, you need less training in the aircraft to meet FAA requirements for 121 new hire. Half the training, half the cost. A big avantage when you hire as many pilots as SWA does. Is there a SWA pilot or insider out here that can confirm this?

Yes, there are a few guys who get interviewed pre-type, but not many. And the $6K was certainly worth it now that he already has the job offer.

My sore spot is that there are many folks out there who buy the type and then attend an interview with a 20-30% selection opportunity...I feel bad for those folks and refuse to be one of them. SWA should not create the environment where you have to blow $6k+ to have a reasonable shot at an interview. They can still require you to get the type after the job offer and prior to class date if that's what they need.

True, but what if other airlines required you to buy a type prior to transitioning to a new aircraft...some airlines have LOTS of different aircraft on property. You'd be blowing $8-10K every few years as your career progressed...

It's just not somewhere we really want to go...

I wasn't suggesting that, nor do I support requiring a type before hire. Yet I too am faced with the same questions about SWA - Should I get the type or not?

The fact that SWA is the only major US carrier to require the type for new hire shows it's not something most airlines feel they can practically do, or want to. And I doubt any airline would be able to do it for transitions (none do that I know of). No pilot would transition from one left seat to another. SWA is in somewhat of a unique position being a one aircraft type company.

SWA's ability to get pilots to apply with the type is beginning to weaken as seen by their willingness to interview pilots without the type, and hire a few (inside word is about 20%) who then must go get it. Maybe this happened years ago, but not in recent memory. We have two pilots in our base that have 1800 and 1350 part 121 PIC respectively, both less than 4000 TT. They both claim no contacts (referrals) at SWA. Both applied without the type initially. Both then got the type and were called for interviews within two weeks of reporting to SWA they had completed the rating (Higher Power). Neither are check airman, neither have jet time (all turboprop pic). Both are still waiting for the DB.

There is a trend here that I like. It appears SWA is beginning to have troubles getting pilots they want to have that are willing to gain the type (by whatever means) before they apply.

SWA type
 

There's no doubt that the type requirement at SWA is a controversial subject. We could debate it forever. Everyone talks about the ins and outs, philosophy, if/when to get it, is it considered PFT, what if you buy it and don't get hired etc. etc. blah blah blah.

I look at it like this: It's what SWA wants and it probably won't change any time soon. If you don't want to pay for it, don't. I did. It cost $7,300 at Higher Power 7 years ago. My first profit sharing deposit was $7,000 and my 401(k) match has been $7,000+ almost every year since I got hired. It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. It was well worth the risk. You can't sit on the fence your whole life. :D

Take care

S.B.

And in that same vein, here another thought. Those with the type are getting calls for interviews at 1500 - 2000 PIC. Those without generally at 2500 pic plus and then only 20% of the total interviewed. The difference is about 8 months of flying. If (the big "if") you were to get hired eight months earlier with the type before interview than without the type, that's an additional eight months down the road as a senior captain. The additional captain's salary alone would be in the neighborhood of $100,000 (or more). Assuming a 20-year career (shall we say investment?), that would be a return of 14.2% (assuming a $7000 type rating). Not bad.

SB correction on your times, right from the source.


* Southwest Airlines Pilot Open House - Hear from the Pilot Hiring Team, ask questions, and win great prizes! You do not have to meet application minimums to attend. Open house is on June 10, 2006 from 1:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. at Southwest Airlines Headquarters, 2702 Love Field Drive, Dallas, TX 75235.

http://www.southwest.com/careers/pilot_open_house.html

learned a lot from this thread, thanks guys!

SWA open house
 

Thanks for the correction Slice. I saw the note for the open house in the pilot lounge a couple weeks ago and the Chief Pilot told me 8:00am. Those guys are so out of touch. :D

S.B.

I talked to someone in H.R. who told me that the open house is a way to GET TO KNOW applicants...

So come on out to DAL if SWA if you want a leg up on the competition Ö

I'll be there....
Any suggestions on hotels, I'll be renting a car, so I'm looking for good location.

Thanks,

Hotels in DAL
 

Our crews stay at the Renaissance. The hotel shuttle runs every half hour to the training center. I'm not sure the cost but if SWA puts us up there it's probably a good deal. Very nice hotel. Good bar, great breakfast, 10 minutes to the training center etc.

S.B.

My sore spot is that there are many folks out there who buy the type and then attend an interview with a 20-30% selection opportunity...I feel bad for those folks and refuse to be one of them. SWA should not create the environment where you have to blow $6k+ to have a reasonable shot at an interview. They can still require you to get the type after the job offer and prior to class date if that's what they need.[/QUOTE]

That may be a sore spot for you but obviously it doesn't bother SWA. Its their company and why shouldn't they be allowed to impose any employment requirement they feel fits their model. No one is forcing anybody to apply. It is one more way they have of controlling costs thereby making them more competitive. And as long as there is no shortage of applicants why should they change? When people stop lining up to go to work there they will do what all company's do to attract applicants, they will lower their qualifications.

Anyone interested in SWA or having an upcoming interview... I'd reccommend getting a copy of this months Spirit magazine (free for the taking in all SWA airplane seat-back pockets). Great articles about SWA's 35th anniversary and interviews with Herb, Colleen, Gary, and Rollin King. Great insight as to the past history and what lies ahead.