Airline Pilot Central Forums - Flight Captain Arrested at NN Airport

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Quote:

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 647095)

TSA intefering with your duties is against federal law too right? Interference with the duties of the flight crew? Again - I'd like to see their charter where it spells out that they are suppose to be conducting these kind of checks.

USMCFLYR

The CFR's are all online... You complain about them so much, why not just go look it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boilerpilot (Post 646494)

They shouldn't have to have in depth knowledge of what we do in order to respect us. I respect soldiers, physics professors, fire fighters, and doctors without having to have an intimate knowledge of their jobs. In fact, I would argue that, given their known attitude of disdain, contempt, and demeaning disrespect for us, if we were to educate them on what we do, they might feel empowered to a point where they think that because they could "check those stupid panels for contraband", that our job isn't that hard. I am always courteous to TSA screeners, but I will never take any kind of guff from them with regards to my job or rights. It's not their job to know what this panel does, or what that opening is, or what that flap does. Their job is to screen people both entering secure areas and to ensure that people in SIDA areas are following correct SIDA procedures. They have the right to check the interior of an aircraft from a security standpoint, but their check (done on their own time) has nothing to do with my job. They are not qualified to inspect the interior of a gear well and know what belongs and what doesn't.

Oh, and if they WERE to stick little pieces of cloth on my aircraft, I WOULD immediately call the real security enforcers: the police.

Agree with your thoughts. The main problem is that when TSA ramped up, all the Taco Bell workers of America came applying and were hired. Then TB had to find new workers and pay them alittle more to compete with TSA and the prices on the value menu went up accordingly. Now they are gettng back at Americans for treating them like crap. You give someone who has never had it a little power and crazy incidents will happen. What irks me every time they harass front end crew is that don't they realize we go behind the bulletproof door and control the plane. If we wanted to do damage and hurt people we do not need a 3 inch set of nail clippers and 4.3oz of toothe past to do it. What a joke. CrewPass cannot come fast enough.

Well, there are a number of things wrong here that I can see.

1. The pilot is NOT required to talk when walking through security.
2. The TSA has ZERO authority to arrest you. Any outside "local" law enforcement would be out of their jurisdiction, so I would not comply with that either. Only the Airport Police have the authority to arrest you.
3. If the pilot allowed the TSA to "arrest" him, the TSA is wrong and the pilot is wrong for allowing it to happen. If this is the case, the pilot need to file charges.

The TSA play games every way they can. The DO observe preflights. The do where ID badges that have pictures of animals. (One in CVG has a picture of a dog. Still waiting to see him in a secure area. I am going to detain him until the police arrive with much.....um, aggressiveness.)

In CVG, one climbed into the cargo compartment of an RJ. An observant employee pulled the cargo bin shut and called police.

They will stand near the "people shredders". If you use one with the "baggage shredder" attached and don't have a bag, they will pull themselves through the baggage portion and chase your butt down. I know someone this happened to.

Just this pass week, one tried to act like a passenger who left something on the plane. The FO let him back on to look. The FA KNEW he was not on the plane and made him get off, saving the whole crew in the process.

That last one has happened to me 20 times, easy. Well, from now on, they will wait outside on the jet way or up at the boarding area while I look for them.

Be careful. Know what you they can and can't do. I tolerate ZERO crap from them, probably because I worked intelligence in the Army and have been through more background checks than they even know exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 651042)

The CFR's are all online... You complain about them so much, why not just go look it up.

Because I don't have to deal with them like the rest pf the pilots who deal with thr TSA on a daily basis. If I were running into problems everyday with them as so many on here seem to be I would educate myself to a great degree on the specific aspects of the charter. Have you never complained about taxes Mason? :rolleyes: I'll bet you never bothered to read the entire tax code. I know the pubs pretty well that I deal with on a daily basis - but thanks for the information.

USMCFLYR

Quote:

"A pilot approached the checkpoint. I spoke to him, but he did not speak back," Bell's complaint says. "As he was putting his items in the tray, I tried to reposition his items before they went through the X-ray. The pilot them squeezed my hand very tight and shoved my hand back away from the tray that his items were in. I then called to make a complaint."

Note to self - don't try to hold hands with TSA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY (Post 651077)

The TSA play games every way they can. The DO observe preflights. The do where ID badges that have pictures of animals. (One in CVG has a picture of a dog. Still waiting to see him in a secure area. I am going to detain him until the police arrive with much.....um, aggressiveness.)

In CVG, one climbed into the cargo compartment of an RJ. An observant employee pulled the cargo bin shut and called police.

That's hilarious. Dang, I wish someone could have video taped that. I would have LOVED to see that. LMAO. :D :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY (Post 651077)

Well, there are a number of things wrong here that I can see.

1. The pilot is NOT required to talk when walking through security.

True

Quote:

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY (Post 651077)

2. The TSA has ZERO authority to arrest you. Any outside "local" law enforcement would be out of their jurisdiction, so I would not comply with that either. Only the Airport Police have the authority to arrest you.

Correct
Wrong
and wrong again.... multiple law enforcement agencies have arrest authority at our nations airports... at the very minimum it would be the city you are in, the state you are in, the port authority if any, and then there would be several federal agencies that all have arrest authority at airports... not to mention the numerous private security people with what are called "special police" powers... but they mostly work access gates for ground vehicles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY (Post 651077)

3. If the pilot allowed the TSA to "arrest" him, the TSA is wrong and the pilot is wrong for allowing it to happen. If this is the case, the pilot need to file charges.

Go read the article again. The TSA did not arrest him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY (Post 651077)

Whatever floats your boat... I wouldn't suggest detaining him/her... I'd report it to your company GSC to have the authorities notified for the SIDA breach.... let him/her explain why he has an animal picture on his/her ID.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY (Post 651077)

In CVG, one climbed into the cargo compartment of an RJ. An observant employee pulled the cargo bin shut and called police.

Well done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY (Post 651077)

They will stand near the "people shredders". If you use one with the "baggage shredder" attached and don't have a bag, they will pull themselves through the baggage portion and chase your butt down. I know someone this happened to.

Just this pass week, one tried to act like a passenger who left something on the plane. The FO let him back on to look. The FA KNEW he was not on the plane and made him get off, saving the whole crew in the process.

That last one has happened to me 20 times, easy. Well, from now on, they will wait outside on the jet way or up at the boarding area while I look for them.

Be careful. Know what you they can and can't do. I tolerate ZERO crap from them, probably because I worked intelligence in the Army and have been through more background checks than they even know exist.

Yeah, and they try to slip into the crew/staff elevators at airports like JFK and DCA without ID showing while in plain clothes too...

Big deal.... deal with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 651120)

Yeah, and they try to slip into the crew/staff elevators at airports like JFK and DCA without ID showing while in plain clothes too...

Big deal.... deal with it.

Deal with it???? Wow, you are obviously okay with TOO MUCH government control.

Try to have a little tact Mason. It was just FYI. Chill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PILOTGUY (Post 651077)

Just this pass week, one tried to act like a passenger who left something on the plane. The FO let him back on to look. The FA KNEW he was not on the plane and made him get off, saving the whole crew in the process.

An instant classic! This makes me wish that a couple of self-important Tub Stackers would get on this site!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 647213)

This is a specific limit to their authority when it comes to observing a pre-flight...

They can also legally ask you "what are you looking for", but only in the context of security NOT in the context of ensuring the airplane is ready for flight. There is a very specific correct answer to that question, verbatim out of the TSA's handbook. I'm not going to repeat it on a public forum, but if you are a 121 pilot and don't know the answer to this question you should find out before you get fined for not knowing.
If a TSA agent is asking about systems, etc you don't really have to discuss that with them. They are probably just curious though...they don't have the vaguest clue about how to evaluate what you are doing.

So, you're saying TSA is permitted to distract us during our pre-flight process. Are they also assuming responsibility if something air safety related is missed while conducting the preflight"? They can ask me all the questions they want after I am done!