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-   -   America West pilots win permanent injunction (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/42077-america-west-pilots-win-permanent-injunction.html)

slowplay 07-20-2009 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by CVG767A (Post 647612)
For what it's worth, I would expect a joint contract this winter, negotiated under the threat of an 1113 hearing. Unfortunately, the USAPA mulligan quest has prevented Doug Parker from capturing any significant merger synergies, and has put USAirway's survival at risk.

The USAPians are going to find out just how much their DOH is worth....

during chapter 33 or a merger. Imposed terms and conditions will implement the list (if there's a company to implement it).

justjack 07-20-2009 09:31 AM

Who is suggesting that anyone “defy a federal court order?” I am suggesting that the company needs to come to the table with a decent proposal, which is highly unlikely. When I read these blogs, I wonder if you have had a look at what the company has done so far. The judge can “find individuals in contempt. He can impose fines and jail time.” – For pilots not agreeing to a contract? Have you SEEN what the company has offered? So pilots will go to jail for not agreeing to wages that are significantly less than industry standards? Perhaps, the judge will throw USAirways management in jail for not negotiating in good faith. Sweet! The headlines will read, “Pilots and Management Kiss and Make Up Behind Bars!” Or maybe, “Management and Union Make Unlikely Bedfellows in State Pen.”
I do agree that UAL is the big question. Chapter 11 or an 1113 hearing assumes that there will be something left to save. Financing will be much, much more difficult to find this time around. LCC‘s credit rating is a problem and then there is the question how much collateral is actually eligible for Section 1110 bankruptcy.
Eaglefly, if Mr. Parker went to court to “argue that is was the intransigence (I can only assume this is the word you were going for) of the east pilots and USAPA that put them” into bankruptcy- he would have some real “'splainin' to do!”
And finally, the judge’s “power is nearly limitless” according to the rule of law. The power to survive is in the hands of management and both pilot groups.

CVG767A 07-20-2009 10:22 AM

USAirways management doesn't need to come to the table with a decent proposal. Assuming a bankruptcy filing is imminent, or has occurred, they simply need to propose a contract that they can afford. It may not even be an improvement over what's in place now.

The next step would be the 1113 hearing to void the current contract, and impose new terms and conditions of employment. USAPA can negotiate under the threat of an imposed contract, and try to get some minor improvements, but their leverage at that point is almost nil.

Since their inception, they've gradually squandered the little bit of leverage they had.

eaglefly 07-20-2009 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by justjack (Post 647723)
Who is suggesting that anyone “defy a federal court order?” I am suggesting that the company needs to come to the table with a decent proposal, which is highly unlikely. When I read these blogs, I wonder if you have had a look at what the company has done so far. The judge can “find individuals in contempt. He can impose fines and jail time.” – For pilots not agreeing to a contract? Have you SEEN what the company has offered? So pilots will go to jail for not agreeing to wages that are significantly less than industry standards? Perhaps, the judge will throw USAirways management in jail for not negotiating in good faith. Sweet! The headlines will read, “Pilots and Management Kiss and Make Up Behind Bars!” Or maybe, “Management and Union Make Unlikely Bedfellows in State Pen.”
I do agree that UAL is the big question. Chapter 11 or an 1113 hearing assumes that there will be something left to save. Financing will be much, much more difficult to find this time around. LCC‘s credit rating is a problem and then there is the question how much collateral is actually eligible for Section 1110 bankruptcy.
Eaglefly, if Mr. Parker went to court to “argue that is was the intransigence (I can only assume this is the word you were going for) of the east pilots and USAPA that put them” into bankruptcy- he would have some real “'splainin' to do!”
And finally, the judge’s “power is nearly limitless” according to the rule of law. The power to survive is in the hands of management and both pilot groups.

The only obstacle that is standing in Parker's way is the east pilots and USAPA. They are the only group that is defying the seniority ruling in the face of repeated confirmations of its validity and thus the primary jeopardy to any chance of the company remaining out of BK.

As such, I see no reason why the easties and USAPA shouldn't get the shaft from yet another judge.

Reroute 07-20-2009 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by justjack (Post 647546)
Reroute- the Nic will never see the light of day- the airline will go bankrupt first. As long as there is this much pilot-pilot rancor, investors will see it for the civil war, poison that it is.

You just can't escape the long arm of the law. The Nicolau award is the integrated seniority list, it will be implemented, particularly if you enter bankruptcy or are acquired or fragmented.

Reroute 07-20-2009 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 647589)
Perhaps the best move for Parker IS to take the company to Chapter 11 BK court. THEN, argue that is was the intransagence of the east pilots and USAPA that put them there and request the nic award be part of the reorganization and move forward.


*****BINGO*****

Reroute 07-20-2009 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 647650)
You will be in great peril if you think you can defy a federal court order.


That Sir, is the understatement of the millenium

Freightpuppy 07-20-2009 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by Dashdog (Post 647356)
:mad:

You're right, but it would just be someone else's buddy on the east side instead. The furloughs have nothing to do with the merger.

I'm sure the west guys furloughed would argue that.

Globaldriver53 07-20-2009 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by powrful1 (Post 646604)
Isn't it about time for everyone to get along and hopefully save what is left of USAirways?

Reading all the poisoned comments on this thread i would say; NOT A CHANCE IN HELL. Glad I'm no longer working there, what a cluster ******!!!!!!!

texaspilot76 07-20-2009 06:15 PM

What's with all this talk of bankruptcy? US Airways has been consistently overselling flights. There are numerous paying passengers that don't get on, much less any non-revs. Thank god for the jumpseat!

US Airways has a huge load factor; that, coupled with dog crap labor wages and oil prices less than half of what they were a year ago, the airline industry is looking toward a very profitable 2nd half of the year. Despite the economy, the seats are filled, at least at Airways.


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