A couple problems? Or just one big one.
09-23-2009 | 06:44 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Gets ALL Days Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
From: Sit down comedian.
A couple problems? Or just one big one.
First- LCC's: We already know that if 5 different airlines are charging $500 for the same route, and an LCC comes in and charges $100, the other 5 are usually forced to lower their price, causing ALL 6 companies now to make less money while under cutting each other. This is not the main problem with the airlines. But it is a start of many other bigger problems.
Next, Furloughs: Well what if those 5 other airlines now claim to make a little less money than they did last year? If you can not possibly make more money, you will be forced to cut cost to level profits, right? Many pilots now lose jobs. Unfortunately, most of those furlough start from the top. As in the highest payed jobs- mainline jobs see most of the furloughs, they are the highest paid compared to regional pilots. If the airlines could, they would furlough the highest paid pilots of all the mainline pilots, but fortunately for us, the seniority system does not allow that to happen... But what if they could "outsource" those high paying jobs to another seniority list... and still pay less money?
Now, Outsourcing: It started many years ago with a regional airline. Back when all regionals were flown by turbo props. These pilots flew smaller planes, and because of that, they were paid less. This was not outsourcing yet. If you got on one of these planes, you probably flew from New York.... to somewhere else in New York. Everything was working just fine.
But as the regional jet came alive, executives quickly realized this jet could fly from New York to Texas. You could fly that jet a couple times a day on the same route and spend less money. Someone discovered you do not need a big jet to do many routes anymore, and even better- if you do not have a big jet, you can pay the pilots a lot less money. Genius! Wait, wait... even better, what if a company designed one of these "regional jets" to hold enough fuel to fly from New York to Washington State with a stop somewhere in the middle at a hub (I have personally flown that route numerous times at my regional for pennies on the dollar). Then you could have them fly that route too! But this does not sounds anything like a regional airline to me. Not anything like the regional airline that used to fly from New York to somewhere else in New York in a real "puddle-jumper". But when you look at the paycheck you receive, it will quickly remind you.
So now all the money those executives just brilliantly saved will end up in their pockets (the multi million dollar salaries can be found online) and after all of that it is inevitable that one thing will happen. Your mainline airline will furlough. And when they do, there is a good chance you will end up at one of those regional airlines while you wait for recall.
So let me make sure I have all of this right now. A pilot just paid his/her dues in the airlines for 10+ years at a regional or some other flying job, and finally got hired by a mainline carrier. And now several years later they become furloughed (see why above) and this lucky pilot (if fortunate enough to find a hiring regional airline) will be sitting in the right seat again making 75% less money, while the other captain in the left seat has less flying experience and makes less money than he/she would have been at one of those major airlines (see why above). I just described several dozen people stuck at my "regional". While they wait for their recall, those mainline jobs will dry up (see why above).
So your two choices for that lucky pilot are: find another career, or get back in line while the rest of us wait our turn to be hired at the majors in the next cycle, only to be put back at the bottom when the major airline furloughs those jobs. This repeating cycle does not seem to make any sense from a career standpoint. Most drooling CFI's will read, but not care, because there is always someone wanting to do that same job for less.
Before someone beats me to saying "capitalism at it's finest", yes we all know. But it is really terrible.
Next, Furloughs: Well what if those 5 other airlines now claim to make a little less money than they did last year? If you can not possibly make more money, you will be forced to cut cost to level profits, right? Many pilots now lose jobs. Unfortunately, most of those furlough start from the top. As in the highest payed jobs- mainline jobs see most of the furloughs, they are the highest paid compared to regional pilots. If the airlines could, they would furlough the highest paid pilots of all the mainline pilots, but fortunately for us, the seniority system does not allow that to happen... But what if they could "outsource" those high paying jobs to another seniority list... and still pay less money?
Now, Outsourcing: It started many years ago with a regional airline. Back when all regionals were flown by turbo props. These pilots flew smaller planes, and because of that, they were paid less. This was not outsourcing yet. If you got on one of these planes, you probably flew from New York.... to somewhere else in New York. Everything was working just fine.
But as the regional jet came alive, executives quickly realized this jet could fly from New York to Texas. You could fly that jet a couple times a day on the same route and spend less money. Someone discovered you do not need a big jet to do many routes anymore, and even better- if you do not have a big jet, you can pay the pilots a lot less money. Genius! Wait, wait... even better, what if a company designed one of these "regional jets" to hold enough fuel to fly from New York to Washington State with a stop somewhere in the middle at a hub (I have personally flown that route numerous times at my regional for pennies on the dollar). Then you could have them fly that route too! But this does not sounds anything like a regional airline to me. Not anything like the regional airline that used to fly from New York to somewhere else in New York in a real "puddle-jumper". But when you look at the paycheck you receive, it will quickly remind you.
So now all the money those executives just brilliantly saved will end up in their pockets (the multi million dollar salaries can be found online) and after all of that it is inevitable that one thing will happen. Your mainline airline will furlough. And when they do, there is a good chance you will end up at one of those regional airlines while you wait for recall.
So let me make sure I have all of this right now. A pilot just paid his/her dues in the airlines for 10+ years at a regional or some other flying job, and finally got hired by a mainline carrier. And now several years later they become furloughed (see why above) and this lucky pilot (if fortunate enough to find a hiring regional airline) will be sitting in the right seat again making 75% less money, while the other captain in the left seat has less flying experience and makes less money than he/she would have been at one of those major airlines (see why above). I just described several dozen people stuck at my "regional". While they wait for their recall, those mainline jobs will dry up (see why above).
So your two choices for that lucky pilot are: find another career, or get back in line while the rest of us wait our turn to be hired at the majors in the next cycle, only to be put back at the bottom when the major airline furloughs those jobs. This repeating cycle does not seem to make any sense from a career standpoint. Most drooling CFI's will read, but not care, because there is always someone wanting to do that same job for less.
Before someone beats me to saying "capitalism at it's finest", yes we all know. But it is really terrible.
09-23-2009 | 08:46 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: One man wolfpack
First- LCC's: We already know that if 5 different airlines are charging $500 for the same route, and an LCC comes in and charges $100, the other 5 are usually forced to lower their price, causing ALL 6 companies now to make less money while under cutting each other. This is not the main problem with the airlines. But it is a start of many other bigger problems.
Next, Furloughs: Well what if those 5 other airlines now claim to make a little less money than they did last year? If you can not possibly make more money, you will be forced to cut cost to level profits, right? Many pilots now lose jobs. Unfortunately, most of those furlough start from the top. As in the highest payed jobs- mainline jobs see most of the furloughs, they are the highest paid compared to regional pilots. If the airlines could, they would furlough the highest paid pilots of all the mainline pilots, but fortunately for us, the seniority system does not allow that to happen... But what if they could "outsource" those high paying jobs to another seniority list... and still pay less money?
Now, Outsourcing: It started many years ago with a regional airline. Back when all regionals were flown by turbo props. These pilots flew smaller planes, and because of that, they were paid less. This was not outsourcing yet. If you got on one of these planes, you probably flew from New York.... to somewhere else in New York. Everything was working just fine.
But as the regional jet came alive, executives quickly realized this jet could fly from New York to Texas. You could fly that jet a couple times a day on the same route and spend less money. Someone discovered you do not need a big jet to do many routes anymore, and even better- if you do not have a big jet, you can pay the pilots a lot less money. Genius! Wait, wait... even better, what if a company designed one of these "regional jets" to hold enough fuel to fly from New York to Washington State with a stop somewhere in the middle at a hub (I have personally flown that route numerous times at my regional for pennies on the dollar). Then you could have them fly that route too! But this does not sounds anything like a regional airline to me. Not anything like the regional airline that used to fly from New York to somewhere else in New York in a real "puddle-jumper". But when you look at the paycheck you receive, it will quickly remind you.
So now all the money those executives just brilliantly saved will end up in their pockets (the multi million dollar salaries can be found online) and after all of that it is inevitable that one thing will happen. Your mainline airline will furlough. And when they do, there is a good chance you will end up at one of those regional airlines while you wait for recall.
So let me make sure I have all of this right now. A pilot just paid his/her dues in the airlines for 10+ years at a regional or some other flying job, and finally got hired by a mainline carrier. And now several years later they become furloughed (see why above) and this lucky pilot (if fortunate enough to find a hiring regional airline) will be sitting in the right seat again making 75% less money, while the other captain in the left seat has less flying experience and makes less money than he/she would have been at one of those major airlines (see why above). I just described several dozen people stuck at my "regional". While they wait for their recall, those mainline jobs will dry up (see why above).
So your two choices for that lucky pilot are: find another career, or get back in line while the rest of us wait our turn to be hired at the majors in the next cycle, only to be put back at the bottom when the major airline furloughs those jobs. This repeating cycle does not seem to make any sense from a career standpoint. Most drooling CFI's will read, but not care, because there is always someone wanting to do that same job for less.
Before someone beats me to saying "capitalism at it's finest", yes we all know. But it is really terrible.
Next, Furloughs: Well what if those 5 other airlines now claim to make a little less money than they did last year? If you can not possibly make more money, you will be forced to cut cost to level profits, right? Many pilots now lose jobs. Unfortunately, most of those furlough start from the top. As in the highest payed jobs- mainline jobs see most of the furloughs, they are the highest paid compared to regional pilots. If the airlines could, they would furlough the highest paid pilots of all the mainline pilots, but fortunately for us, the seniority system does not allow that to happen... But what if they could "outsource" those high paying jobs to another seniority list... and still pay less money?
Now, Outsourcing: It started many years ago with a regional airline. Back when all regionals were flown by turbo props. These pilots flew smaller planes, and because of that, they were paid less. This was not outsourcing yet. If you got on one of these planes, you probably flew from New York.... to somewhere else in New York. Everything was working just fine.
But as the regional jet came alive, executives quickly realized this jet could fly from New York to Texas. You could fly that jet a couple times a day on the same route and spend less money. Someone discovered you do not need a big jet to do many routes anymore, and even better- if you do not have a big jet, you can pay the pilots a lot less money. Genius! Wait, wait... even better, what if a company designed one of these "regional jets" to hold enough fuel to fly from New York to Washington State with a stop somewhere in the middle at a hub (I have personally flown that route numerous times at my regional for pennies on the dollar). Then you could have them fly that route too! But this does not sounds anything like a regional airline to me. Not anything like the regional airline that used to fly from New York to somewhere else in New York in a real "puddle-jumper". But when you look at the paycheck you receive, it will quickly remind you.
So now all the money those executives just brilliantly saved will end up in their pockets (the multi million dollar salaries can be found online) and after all of that it is inevitable that one thing will happen. Your mainline airline will furlough. And when they do, there is a good chance you will end up at one of those regional airlines while you wait for recall.
So let me make sure I have all of this right now. A pilot just paid his/her dues in the airlines for 10+ years at a regional or some other flying job, and finally got hired by a mainline carrier. And now several years later they become furloughed (see why above) and this lucky pilot (if fortunate enough to find a hiring regional airline) will be sitting in the right seat again making 75% less money, while the other captain in the left seat has less flying experience and makes less money than he/she would have been at one of those major airlines (see why above). I just described several dozen people stuck at my "regional". While they wait for their recall, those mainline jobs will dry up (see why above).
So your two choices for that lucky pilot are: find another career, or get back in line while the rest of us wait our turn to be hired at the majors in the next cycle, only to be put back at the bottom when the major airline furloughs those jobs. This repeating cycle does not seem to make any sense from a career standpoint. Most drooling CFI's will read, but not care, because there is always someone wanting to do that same job for less.
Before someone beats me to saying "capitalism at it's finest", yes we all know. But it is really terrible.
09-24-2009 | 05:19 AM
#5
Looking for a laugh
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
Why? When I got furloughed, I went and got a non-flying job. Paid way more than going back to a regional and starting over. Flying isn't everything. You should define the job, not let the job define you.
09-24-2009 | 07:38 AM
#9
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
New Career
I did start over in a new line of work and my life was transformed for the better as a result. It is just a shame that so much was invested into a career that is now worthless. I wish that flying wasn't such a dead end anymore. It was a great dream while it lasted.
Skyhigh
09-24-2009 | 07:40 AM
#10
SDQ Base Chief
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,057
Likes: 34
From: 320 CA
777 CA $200/hr FO 140/hr
767 CA $180/hr FO 120/hr
737 CA $160/hr FO 100/hr
Even if other airlines didnt have the same payrates they would be relatively in line with everyone else +/- a few bucks and nobody would start over at probation pay making $35/hr.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
