I usually don't try and speculate, but in this case I will. I think either they were extremely engaged or fell asleep. I have flown the A320 and with moving maps, selcal from dispatch, etc., I don't know how they could miss the airport by that much. It seems very difficult that they would not have noticed. That said, most of us that have flown for awhile have flown tired. Many of us have nodded off, and it isn't a good feeling to wake up and find you are the only one awake. If this was the case with these guys, it can happen to anyone. I hope this incident keeps the heat on the FAA to establish new flight time limits.

I'm really curious why since you "usually don't try and speculate" that you feel compelled to do it now?

I disagree. I don't support them.

And I hope others wouldn't feel compelled to support me in my negligence simply because we have a common career. It shouldn't make a difference. I'd rather you give it to me like it is.

That's you choice, but I have to ask: Is it because you absolutely KNOW what transpired in that cockpit and have personal knowledge of the crew dynamic, or are you simply parroting the drivel that the media is shoveling?

The media doesn't concern me.

How could I know what happened in the cockpit?? We may never know. If you feel that I am being irresponsible by suggesting the crew was negligent, that is fine. It also doesn't concern me.

Why? for being in non radio contact for more than an hour? For not following SOPs. For not initiating loss comm procedures if that were the case? When and where did the break in the link begin?

It's going to be a hard sell in driving the pay and benefit issues to the general public.

Remember Colgan Air??? the mantra was inexperienced crew??? not following SOPs??? out to lunch.

The difference is that the passengers and crew arrived at their destinations... and alive.

Could you imagine if the crew were flying to KBOS, and overflew Boston over the Atlantic Ocean for 30 minutes with a 100 knot tail wind, and discovered that they needed 40 minutes to get back to Boston with only 35 minutes of fuel until tanks dry?

Fatigue after 19 hours of rest on day 2??? also pretty hard to accept especially with a mid day report.

That's what makes a horse race... you have your opinion, and I have mine.

That is very true... Two pilots that I used to work with at my old company had an accident last spring. Both pilot were knowledgeable, professional, and good sticks. Fortunately everybody walked away, but the plane was destroyed, jobs were lost, and careers were damaged. When I first heard about the accident, I just couldn't believe those were the guys involved... It was the first time I sincerely considered that accidents and incidents can happen to anyone.

Funny thing is, is that many of those "I won't support you or what you did", end up with egg on their face after the facts come out, or wonder why no one wants to support them when THEY screw up. I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt until I'm 100% sure they don't deserve it. We see a lot of "anti-ALPA" folks who are the first to call ALPA for help when they screw up. :rolleyes:

Was that the Falcon overun @ SBA? It's a small world in aviation, and an even smaller one of pilots bending metal on kerosine burners.