Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 705505)

Its routine for Delta to suspend a crew when a incident happens. There really is no other option. Are they going to let them fly there next trip? The suspension in most cases works in the pilots favor. Delta suspends the pilot and sends them back to the school house for a couple of sims and retraining. When the FAA has its hearing Delta shows the steps they have taken and training the pilots have received and that is often the end of the story. The pilots go back to the line and everyone is happen. Its a system that has worked well and saved a lot of pilots from much worse punishments from the FAA.

On the subject of the role of the company, FAA and NTSB in actual accident investigations I can tell you that you have the priorities wrong. With the company and FAA the number one priority is reduce our legal liability. The 2nd priority is reduce our legal liability. The actual truth and cause of the accident are way down the priority list. The NTSB is supposed to be neutral and seek the cause of the accident. In reality they come under enormous pressure from the Airline, aircraft builder, FAA and any other party that might get sued. The pressure? Reduce our legal liability. If you seeing a trend here you will start to understand the process.

Originally Posted by ewrbasedpilot (Post 705558)

That professor on the video reminds me of John King when he's "teaching" his aviation courses. I do believe that he took a breath around the 14:30 timeline in the tape. :p

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 705354)

In any accident investigation, you know each group's role. The company is looking to improve safety, but they also are looking at discipline issues. The FAA is looking to improve safety, but they also are looking at certificate issues. The NTSB, they are supposed to be Switzerland. They have no other role but to improve safety, they don't care about discipline or certificate issues.

You know that you can tell the NTSB anything and it will only be used for one thing: to enhance safety. Spill your guts, tell all your secrets, be totally honest.

Well at least that's how it used to be. The ink wasn't even dry on the statements of the NWA 188 pilots before the NTSB goes blabbing to everyone who will listen. I thought this was supposed to be a safety investigation and not another episode of Jon and Kate + 8. How did the NTSB's actions do ANYTHING to improve flight safety?

I don't want to argue about the aircrew's actions or inactions, that has been beat to death.

What I would like to know is why anyone would want to talk to them ever again? If the NTSB will publish my statement whenever they feel like it, shouldn't I just say, "Hey, talk to my lawyer, and then leave the room."

This is either a monumental blunder on the part of the NTSB, or they have decided that they want to just examine bent pieces of metal and write off any input from pilots. I don't trust them now and I will not trust them until they either fix this mess or until Congress puts laws in place to tie their hands.

I am wondering if anyone else feels the same way.

Originally Posted by goaround2000 (Post 705997)

So I guess I'll be that guy and state the obvious.

First I do agree that the NTSB should be a neutral entity at all times in the interest of safety.

That being said, what is there to investigate? These two guys normalized deviance to the point that the F-16s were almost deployed! They screwed up! The only bad guy(s) here are the two guys that decided that playing with their computers was more important than monitoring the basic functions of our job, not the NTSB. I don't care if they were looking up ways to donate money to Jerry's kids! A lot of you guys here seem to want to point fingers. The NTSB, the FAA, and the company should make examples out of these two guys. Again, there is no possible excuse for this level of stupidity on the flight deck, I don't care how good of aviators or people these two guys are. So if the NTSB decides to crawl up their rear ends to illustrate the difference between outcome based vs. risk based safety, then by all means, here's a jar of vaseline have fun Ms. Hersman!

Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 706009)

You may think you'd never ever screw up to the extent these guys did, and you're *probably* right. There's a pretty good chance you'll screw up in some form over the course of your career, though. When you do, you'll care about due process. The whole point of due process is that it's applied to everyone equally, including those you'd prefer to crucify.