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Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 712573)
The blast definately had a concessionary tone about it; I agree. Personally I do not think APA should give up anything at all. It may be time to go for a shorter term contract than usual, since gettign anything in this economy will be very difficult, so having a shorter term new contract would let the APA ride the storm out a little while the economy recovers.
That being said, I would suggest a short term contract that comes due in 2013 to match the end date of Eagle's pilot contract. It would allow the two groups to work as one. As others have said, if there is to be a scope concession of any kind, it needs to be rewritten from the language AMR posted. They wanted larger jets at any commuter carrier. A middle ground would be to give AMR the larger jets, but only at Eagle - and in concert with a 2013 contract expiration date. In an ideal world this wouldn't be an issue, and APA pilots would be doing ALL flying for AMR; and scope would never have been let out of the bag... If you can get both pilot groups on the same contract schedules you will go a long way toward helpoing them both work together instead of always being at odds with eachother. Look at it this way; will the APA be better off in 2013 with just the APA and EGL ALPA flying for AMR, or with APA, EGL ALPA, CHQ, CAPE AIR, TSA and Mesa all flying AMR routes and ALL ready to take work from both Eagle and AA at a moments notice... The enemy of my enemy is my friend; it's time APA and EGL started working together... EGL is now part of ALPA, and I don't think ALPA national will concede anything less than than a full seniority integration (regardless of what EGL pilots might want). Conversely, the debate at the national level is whether APA should negotiate pay rates for RJ's at market levels (carve out a commuter supplement) and offer some 1800 furloughed pilots a chance at that flying, or liberalize scope in exchange for more $$$, or some combination thereof. Whether it's APA that doesn't want EGL, or EGL ALPA that doesn't want APA is unclear to me. One thing for sure, since APA can hardly remain unified, I don't see any agreement with ALPA over integration with EGL, especially in light of the fact that APA is still coping with 1800 plus furloughs... |
Originally Posted by Oldfreightdawg
(Post 712685)
Conversely, the debate at the national level is whether APA should negotiate pay rates for RJ's at market levels (carve out a commuter supplement) and offer some 1800 furloughed pilots a chance at that flying, or liberalize scope in exchange for more $$$, or some combination thereof.
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September : TA is reached. Final product is basically a reshuffling of our current bankruptcy style contract, a 5% raise, PBS, and "loosening of scope language" allowing 70-90 seat E-jets to Eagle. Vote passes by 69%.
I'm just taking this comment at face value now.., but, if this is true, As "Mainline Pilots" It seems to me that you've got no one to blame but yourselves if or when this well laid TA turns into a "regional stealing mainline job **** storm." I'm sure there's gotta be more too this. As much as the topic of "SCOPE" is hammered in every conceivable way at this very site, I'm utterly shocked. Oh well nothing like job security right? Question is, for who..., time will tell, hell all we gotta do is look at the very recent past to see where this will ultimately go. Again I don't pretend to have all the facts, just commenting on the post. Best of luck to us all. |
Originally Posted by dosbo
(Post 712689)
At least the 1800 APA pilots will be off the street with some upward mobility.
A more realistic scenario would have to occur that at least has SOME chance of occuring. |
Originally Posted by eaglefly
(Post 712712)
The assumption that the APA unilaterally seizing another carriers RJ's and then (again) unilaterally bouncing a majority of that carriers pilots in favor of their own furloughees will never happen, so this scenario will likely do little for those furloughees.
A more realistic scenario would have to occur that at least has SOME chance of occuring. Fast forward to today: Suppose AMR decides to revisit the sale of EGL? Maybe a public offering in conjunction with an agreement with APA to fly 90 to 110 seater's? After all, if we are to believe the rumors that many EGL flow through pilots no longer want their AA senior numbers, maybe our furloughees want them instead. On the other hand, there are plenty of furloughees that would not come back to an RJ position at current market rates. Surely this could be a realistic scenario: which would represent a combination of both RJ flying at AA and EGL as a separate entity competing with the likes of RAH. |
What are the chances that a modified flowthrough will result from the negotiations underway now over the recent arbitration ruling? Captains were displaced and FO's furloughed, and everyone has suffered QOL/pay issues as a result. What if everyone now at Eagle (including furloughs) was offered a one-time, take-it-or-leave-it option to flow through to AA as a remedy? Ideas?
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Originally Posted by mrmak2
(Post 712816)
What are the chances that a modified flowthrough will result from the negotiations underway now over the recent arbitration ruling? Captains were displaced and FO's furloughed, and everyone has suffered QOL/pay issues as a result. What if everyone now at Eagle (including furloughs) was offered a one-time, take-it-or-leave-it option to flow through to AA as a remedy? Ideas?
To me, it seems foolish to spread flying in a single network among several regional affiliates. If you were to believe all the crap pouring from Wall Street financiers and corporate board rooms about the "synergies" of combining airlines, then why would airline managements pursue arrangements which would spread the work over several more departments than necessary? i.e. every airline has it's own dispatch, it's own maintenance, it's own scheduling staff, etc. Even though regional employees don't enjoy the same level of compensation as their mainline counterparts--it's difficult to reconcile having many more lower paid employees than fewer better paid folks doing more work. Jet Blue doesn't farm out it's 100 seat flying, SWA doesn't even have a regional affiliate--both airlines are fairly successful. Coincidence? |
It appears from this thread that some pilots believe that the unions control the seniority list and can merge them at will. That is not true. The seniority list is maintained and controlled by the company. In addition the RLA act forbids many of the things pilots think the unions should do. As a example you can't link negotiations between to different contracts. APA has found out first hand what happens when you mess with the RLA and a judge.
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Originally Posted by McBoeingBus
(Post 711621)
I wouldn' bet the farm on anything until the new FAA rules are published.:cool:
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AE is a competitor for APA jobs. It's as simple as that. I have nothing in common with AE. They'd steal an AA pilots' job in a heartbeat if they could. AE is no different than Republic, Gojet, CHQ, TSA or any other low-pay outsourcer.
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