Airline Pilot Central Forums - CVR Bill in Congress. NOT GOOD !!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by deltabound (Post 714872)

This story makes no sense... To wit: no matter what Congress passes, labor can still negotiate to not allow the company to use CVR or FDR data to punish/monitor performance...

Quote:

I think this story is trying to say that Congress wants the FAA to randomly sample CVR's and FDR's for improper pilot procedure. While this certainly would SUCK, I'd have to say, get used to the idea.

You can get used to the idea of periodic checkrides, medicals, and line checks, but it's pretty hard to conceive this group accepting monitoring devices. We have CVR's and FDR for the prupose of making the skies safer, and they work. Very well. Using them for other purposes, and turning them over to HR, would be disastrous. Not only would we become disfunctional paranoids, but the airlines would also be forced to use the data, and I don't think they want to do that. Sure, there is a chief pilot or two that dreams about this stuff at night, but most legal or HR departments would probably shiver at the thought. For starters, every one of your mistakes they failed to punish for, they would be accountable for. And if they punished you for every mistake, and spent the time reviewing your actions, there would be no pilot left that's fit for duty, since we are in an error-intolerant industry, not an error-free industry.

On the flip side, you would have thousands of unemployed pilots available to review flights by the few pilots yet to be fired. It would build into a feverd pitch, with the last flying pilot being reviewed several hundred thousand times, by the remaining, non-flying, "pilots".

So I'm not getting used to that idea, and neither should you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 714883)

I'm not sure you're right. If there is a new law that bans such agreements, inlcuding those already in place, you can't... re-negotiate an illegal agreement. Like it or not, Congress matters, and laws carry the force... of law.

You can get used to the idea of periodic checkrides, medicals, and line checks, but it's pretty hard to conceive this group accepting monitoring devices. We have CVR's and FDR for the prupose of making the skies safer, and they work. Very well. Using them for other purposes, and turning them over to HR, would be disastrous. Not only would we become disfunctional paranoids, but the airlines would also be forced to use the data, and I don't think they want to do that. Sure, there is a chief pilot or two that dreams about this stuff at night, but most legal or HR departments would probably shiver at the thought. For starters, every one of your mistakes they failed to punish for, they would be accountable for. And if they punished you for every mistake, and spent the time reviewing your actions, there would be no pilot left that's fit for duty, since we are in an error-intolerant industry, not an error-free industry.

On the flip side, you would have thousands of unemployed pilots available to review flights by the few pilots yet to be fired. It would build into a feverd pitch, with the last flying pilot being reviewed several hundred thousand times, by the remaining, non-flying, "pilots".

So I'm not getting used to that idea, and neither should you.

Not to mention all the legitimate claims by pilots who could say "I was fired for this, but this other pilot wasn't." There would be a staggering amount of information available for pilots to start wrongful termination suits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaPaySoon (Post 714811)

WHAT?!

This will never, ever see the light of day. I hope you're kidding. It hasn't even left the guy's office.

Yes, I am kidding.

I'm referencing the last piece of asinine legislation that much to my bewilderment was supported fully and completely by ALPA, to the detriment of most of its members.

Honestly I don't see ALPA doing anything other than fighting this, however, nothing the association does surprises me anymore.

Suspension Of Service

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 714788)

Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act.... Think about that for a moment folks. This coming from a US congressman. Wow.. the arrogance of our government is staggering

That sums it up right there. Guess we should be able to record all there conversations and discipline them when they screw up. I don't think we have enough cell space. IDIOTS!!!!!:rolleyes:

I bet the CVR is "broken" a lot if this happens. I used to fly with a captain on the 3 holer who would pull several CBs on his way to the seat.

His reason- "If we ever crash, I'm going to make that chair warming SOB work harder to figure out what we screwed up in the 10 seconds we had to do anything.":D

We all know that there a large number of things that pilots can do to render the CAM (cockpit area microphone) useless.

This is NOT the place to discuss them.

Joe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 714883)

I agree with most of what you write. Nevertheless, I think this is yet another example of an article written by a report who knows little or nothing about the industry he's covering.

That Congressional busy bodies would like to give CVR access to the FAA for spot checks isn't anything new; it's a idea that comes up from time to time.

I have a hard time believing that Congress would think it wise or necessary that private contractors (unions and airlines) should not be able to enter agreements as to what CVR data may be used for. It's micromanagement on a ridiculous scale, and I doubt that Congress even has the authority to do so.

I believe the airline corporations will fight this as well. I can only imagine the litigators salivating over this information for suits against the airline for anything from ground delays to inflight medical emergencies and EVERYTHING in between.
I used to be a locomotive engineer and the rail roads fought off the notion of voice recorders simply to help them hide from liability in accident investigations.
I can hear it now " the pic neglected to call ramp control to get a gate so I could take a dump"

The CVR in my aircraft has a CB. Our manual does not allow us to reset the CB with out MX resetting it. Anything else I can fix or find a solution to?