That assumes there are no pilots in the industry that hate unions and organized labor. Maybe not at your airline but we work with plenty and unfortunately many who made the decision to scab years ago.

I also have many unemployed friends that would probably consider ANY employment in the current economy. Most of those, in part blame ALPA for their unemployment. Just a guess, but I think most of them would consider crossing a picket line, especially an ALPA picket line to get back to work and back in the cockpit.

All these other profession promote on CAPABILITY, not on seniority. Wanna make partner in a law firm? You have to work harder, bill more hours, and otherwise be a "better" lawyer than the other associates. You don't make partner on seniority. Junior lawyers who are "better" make partner before more senior lawyers. Same with doctors, bankers, realtors, stock brokers, accountants or ANY other professionals you can name.

"Experience" is NOT what is rewarded: Other professions reward capability, work ethic, expertise and skill. They can move from firm to firm ONLY because they can jump seniorty based on demostrated or potential performance.

There are good reasons for our seniorty system, but it is not without its downside(s).

I'm sorry I didn't take the time to read through the 12+ pages of replies here so if this is a repeat subject then disregard.

First, I just wanted to echo many of the other comments that said your site is extremely well done... well written and well thought out, IMO.

The only other topic that might be considered that came to mind was overseas contract flying. Some of those opportunities allow for direct entry to the left seat. I realize, (all too well actually), that there's more to it than that but I just thought it might be another topic for your site.

Keep up the good work.

Very true. Bad situation for many right now. As for those with jobs, there will always be folks that only want to look out for #1. And in these times, that is going to be much more common if anything goes down.

You bring up a very good point. Quailty and capability are hard to reward in our field. You can't just give a pilot a raise for a month of great landings (or can you) :cool: No news is good news in the pilot world. Something can be said for someone having 15,000 hours in an airplane without lawn darting one. Also, our profession HAS to have a 100% success rate. Safely takeoff and land EVERY single time. It is hard to reward something that is expected. (From managements point of view)

But what am I worried about, live video feeds from cockpit is coming sooner than later I'm sure. They'll be able to critic every facet of the flight then! :eek:

I took time to read through the whole blog and all the responses. First and foremost, great job on the blog. It is informative, but it is slanted towards the airline side of the house, but you've also misinformed the public a bit about corporate/business aviation.

I was an airline pilot, and I was one of those FO's making a pretty good living having "paid my dues" only to see my airline collapse. Instead of diving back into $20,000/year job to start "rebuilding", I chose to pursue business aviation. Now you see, unlike the airlines, should you lose a job flying something like a Global Express or Gulfstream 550 or Falcon 2000EASy, it is not an automatic sentence to go back to right seat of a King Air for $20,000/year. In fact, if you are flexible and willing to move, you can find a job flying the same equipment you've flown before making similar paycheck, much like that accountant you describe in your ACME Airlines scenario. A friend of mine recently lost his job as a corporate pilot. He got 6 months of salary as severance and he found another job flying the same equipment he was flying before a month later but making $1,000 more per month than at the old company. Now his base pay went from $103,000/year to $115,000/year and this is not counting his severance. Can you show me a US airline pilot that can do that? Corporate pilots tend to be compensated as professionals, airline pilots in the US unfortunately do not.

Seniority/experience.

Notice that if you are an experienced pilot, you are truly limiting yourself if you choose to stay in the United States, and primarily because the pilot job market in the US is very depressed and is likely to stay that way for years to come. If you are willing to move abroad, you don't have to start over at $20,000/year again in the US. You can make a rather good living overseas where the company pays for your housing (3-4 bedroom condo or a villa), education for your children at private American schools abroad, provide you with transportation allowance (think company making your car and insurance payment for you), and all of that is in addition to your basic salary which is far superior to anything you'd find in terms of compensation from the US airlines. And the most beautiful part? No seniority system that dictates you have to "pay your dues" all over again.

That brings me to the final topic - seniority system in the US and the obsession with "paying your dues" concept. This ranking system can be traced to the military which is where many earlier airline pilots came from. It is simply outdated, and it serves no one except the people on top of the seniority list. Our current seniority system is what's enabling outsourcing/searching for lowest cost unit, keeping the wages low, etc. Just think - if you were to ask your senior captain would he/she rather take a 30% paycut or stand his ground and risk having to start over at $20,000/year, that captain may thump his/her chest about how there's no way in hell he/she would ever agree to that kind of pay cut, but in the end, they will check the mark YES for concessions. Why? Seniority - why risk having to start over at $20,000/year. Now imagine if that experienced pilot could move to a different, healthier company and retain his salary. It would force airlines to compete in more ways than one. Accountants, nurses, doctors, lawyers, and virtually any professional can vote with their feet, and you can rest assured that their profession hasn't suffered nearly as much as ours over the years. On the other hand US airline pilots do not have that luxury - they've done this to themselves through their unions and their obsession with their seniority, and what's even more amazing is that there is not much will among the US airline pilot ranks to challenge this system. A wise man once said: "You reap what you sow."

Now imagine a really. really sharp 4 year FO who is "promoted" to Captain, and allowed to bid ahead of 25 year captains in the company because he/she has more knowledge, skill, work ethic, etc. than any other pilot in the company. Who would agree to that? Very few, I suspect.

I said this before...unlike airlines, every other profession mentioned allows members to be promoted "out of order. The "best" people are promoted ahead of the "above average" folks. Every day. They bring in "new" people from other firms, and promote people from within.

Meeting the minimum standards (although they are indeed very, very high standards) will keep you moving smartly up the airline seniority list. Dwight Schrute notwithstanding, It will NOT keep you moving up the corperate ladder to partner, chief of surgery, regional manager, etc. etc. etc.

Our industry is different. We have to address this issue if we want to advocate a change in the seniority system that would include "seniority portability."

I would have absolutely NO QUALMS with that because it would require people to keep sharp in every aspect, it would require people to keep up a good attitude at work, keep people from abusing the system. Ever seen the movie Office Space where Peter Gibbons is interviewing with the efficiency experts - "the Bobs" and he tells them it's not that he's lazy - he just doesn't care? If not, here's the clip. YouTube - Office Space: Meeting "The Bobs"
Fast forward to 2:10 or so... and then think about it when it comes to union mentality. Why the hell should I show up to work and exhibit anything more than absolute minimum standard just enough to not get fired? What is the motivation or incentive to do anything beyond the bare minimum? Stop and think about this for a minute. Is that professionalism? Is that how a professional is supposed to be treated? In my humble opinion, that's not professionalism. Professionals are given incentives. US airline pilots are not. The incentive for US airline pilots is to not get fired between date-of-hire and upgrade. That's it...

Now let's take a look at it from the other angle that you bring up - really, really, really sharp 4th or 5th year FO's... Who wins in this scenario? Let's see, everyone has to bring forward their best and has the incentive to do so.. Who wins? The passengers/customers, the shareholders/our employer, and you may not see it this way, but you as an employee win here - your promotion is based on something OTHER than your date-of-hire. It's funny how the union mentality forgets who pays their salary or why are they even there. It's also interesting you mention 25 year captains and their bidding rights. How about 25 year flight attendants - you know, the sky queens with attitudes? I work overseas, but when I come to the US on vacation, I avoid US airlines like a plague. Why? Because I want superior customer service provided by friendly, good looking flight attendants, and not some 40 year bitter "airline veterans" finally "senior enough to bid an ABC international trip because it credits XX hours and is a cool layover." Just about every other American at my company is the same way - all avoid flying on US airlines. Mind you, we have a choice of carriers for our vacation.

Meeting the minimum standards should not be a basis for promotion. It should be a basis for you to keep your job. You should do more than the bare minimum and simply existing to get promoted - just my opinion.

How about approaching it from the standpoint of "professional worth" and not in terms of "seniority." Just a thought... you're trying to reclaim the profession, right?

Who decides?
 

Before abandoning the seniority system, we should ask people in other industries how promotions really work, not how they're supposed to work. Does the best worker become foreman, the most skilled "cutter" Chief of Surgery, the wisest professor Dean, or the finest legislator Speaker? I suspect that factors other than competence play a major role, and would be interested in hearing comments from those with actual experience in "non-seniority" promotion systems. We certainly don't want a situation where favoritism, deals, rumors, and back-stabbing become routes to advancement. :(

Hear, Hear Tom!!! In a perfect world promotions would work as described above but, unfortunately we live in the real world and I'm cynical enough to believe there would be more of what you describe going on.

Denny