Bucking Bar

Don't we need to add Colgan to this thread?

NuGuy

Hey Guys,

First, props to Sink for the work setting up the threads.

Discussing in-depth technical details on a public forum might be frowned upon, so can I suggest that we leave the sorta-sensitive stuff to another place?

I'm not sayin' anything, I'm just sayin....

Nu

Denny Crane

You're right. I hate to go 'in search of' every time I want to find something. Unfortunately I don't think this will get changed any time soon. I think the lawyers got involved in this one. It's my understanding that we switched over to the Boeing manuals for a liability issues and I don't think anything is going to change sooner (or later) with this issue.

Wasn't there a pamphlet put out by Delta to try and deal with some of this?

Denny

Gnewt

Did Boeing write the FOM, AM, ODM, ARM?

III Corps

Not unusual that this is ongoing. When we (PI) merged with US and with PSA, we had a meeting to work on the 727 checklists. At that time BI had gone under, guys were bailing from TWA and PanAm and we had guys from Eastern also. EVERYONE of those carriers operated the 727.

Early in the meeting I suggested we bring in a manual from every airline we could find that was flying a 727 with the idea that "The best procedure is OUR procedure and our procedure is the best procedure" explaining we had a chance to cherry pick and actually build a manual based on best practices. You would have thought I had stood up in church and yelled, "****!" Everyone just looked at me like I was crazy and we went back to, "Well, we do it this way and it works good for us"...

Nothing new... nothing new.

Denny Crane

Touche'!!!!

Denny

DAL330drvr

One small improvement that doesn't take much programming:

Vacation Slide on PBS. We used to be able to slide our vacation days during bidding +/- 3 days.

iceman49

I have no doubt that the lawyers got involved, I believe one of our participants cited the liability as a result of the Swiss Air incident. Liability has not killed the airlines, its been ****y returns on services rendered. What about a manual system that is virtually the same for every aircraft, think of the savings and simplification...you're not learning a new aircraft and new culture for the aircraft but rather differences. If you could move from the 757/767/777/330 and all of the paragraphs and verbiage were virtually identical...not written for individual fleets. Write the manuals for the most advanced aircraft fit all the other aircraft into the same mold, unless where its not possible. Training would be simplified and more cost effective.

The memory items were recommended to take a hike, the objection did not come from Delta, it came from a SE government agency.

Sink r...good job!

Burn Notice

As I recall, pre BK we went through a major realigment to standardize across fleets. And then for a little while I KNOW I didn't need to remember anything. ;-) But then, memory items came back, but the checklists did stay similar when I went to a new school. The more things change the more they stay the same.
Burn Notice

PS-Sink, Greta job, thanks!

Sink r8

My pleasure, guys.

I was really glad the APC guys helped out by putting the threads together where they can be easily found.

Now, I make no secret of the fact I'd rather talk about the next contract, but I think this thread would be able to identify things we can do better. In my mind, I filter the things I want this way:

1) Things that are practice or procedure that someone (N or S) doesn't like,
2) Kick them around, see what can stand a little scrutiny,
3) Throw out pet peeves, and personal preferences,
4) Throw out items that make people puke, like a good old-fashioned hat debate,
5) See if there is any consensus about how we really ought to be doing things,
6) Determine what isn't actually being taken care of, and get it changed.

So my question is this: before we build space shuttles from scratch here, and since there are enough of us here that are labeled as union people, can anyone shed light as to whether these problems are being handled by the various working groups? Is there any one with good connections that can get an explanation as to what is actually happening, currently, to identify and implement these Best Practices?

Thanks in advance,

Sink r8