EOS class of pilots starts Feb 19th, if I'm not mistaken.

FWIW

Yes they did

I'm curious what good CASS would do as it is for domestic only. Your managers seem to have a problem with us peons riding in the back with the swells

Would anyone know if the director of training is Knut Finnevolden? I heard a rumor that he was hired there and appointed the position... I dont think he has an hour of jet time.

Understand its not the pilots, but management. During beers at the 3 Horse Shoes a while back, it is the desires of Mgt. that no full fare paying passenger paying upwards of $7,000 round trip should sit next to a non revenue pax who only paid the taxes to travel.

MAXjet on the other hand are willing to take both pilots and cabin crew whenever there is an empty seat, provided they are on the jump seat agreement list.

So if and when an EOS crewmember needs a ride some place, have a heart, and understand that if they could they would extend you an invitation to ride.

That's not exactly "reciprocity', mate. EOS needs to open up those seats, regardless of the fares, because that is the industry standard protocol. Otherwise, they risk a big backlash against their commuters. Trust me, it could get ugly.

Management at Eos has a hard time understanding the concept of jumpseating and how dear a benefit it is and they lose pilots as a result. If you truly want to punish the pilots for the deeds of management go right on ahead but it's not the pilots that are at fault here. I guarantee all of the pilots at Eos would love to give you a ride, but they can only do that for pilots with a reciprocal agreement. Last I knew that included Jet Blue, Delta and several of Delta's feeders. Believe me, the pilots have tried and are trying to add to that list but management is very hard headed. Half the pilots at Delta are early-retired Delta guys, you really think they are at fault? Like I said go on ahead and punish them if you wish, call them names if it makes you feel better...but they are not at fault.

Ganbare

Reciprocity
 

What part of having formal jumpseat agreements is so bad. The way I understand their problem is that they really do not want to fill the seats with people from airlines that they feel their own people will not use. In a conversation with Eos it was stated that he is more than willing to sign any agreement if it would help one crewmember get home, but that he really did not want to enter into agreements with just everybody, and potentially knock the jumpseater from let's say JetBlue or some other carrier that he knows his crews use all the time, because the seats were already taken.

While you state that this is industry standard I can agree that it would be nice to have just an open policy. Sometimes management just needs some time to get used to a new concept. It does not mean that the employees are not trying to change things from within. One thing I can agree with them on is that the Atlas folks are pushing this on several boards and that I really do not see why I would go out of my way to help them. I had a terrible experience with an Atlas jumpseater that unfortunately we put in first class. It turned out that he smelled horrible and managed to use the F word about every 3 seconds in front of paying pax. I ended up getting a call from my domicile Chief Pilot and spent way to much time dealing with it.

Open jumpseats are a great idea, but my experience is that some folks just do not know how to behave, and give the concept a bad rap.

When a new airline starts up, they don't 'pick and choose' what companies THEY want on THEIR reciprocal jumpseat list; that's not how its done. They open their doors and seats to all Part 121 pilots in exchange for establishing reciprocal agreements. It has nothing to do with punishing EOS pilots, who I'm happy to take; it has everything to do with following industry standard protocols and opening up their seats, or risk being removed from other carrier lists.

True and true.

Thanks Sky... Cant imagine that will get much respect. A turboprop guy training international heavy jet people...

You seem to know everything
 

The fact that what you say has not been true at any carrier I helped start, or worked at means nothing in this conversation. Have fun in your version of the world

Since when does a Director of training actually do the training
 

I was at a fairly large outfit that the Director of Training was a flight attendant. He actually did a good job on the training schedule and he kept the records flawless. On a NASIP they actually said our records and FOTM were far better than most 121's they had seen.

Well, then you haven't been at recent start-ups like JetBlue, AirTran, Frontier, Spirit, North American, Polar/Atlas and even MAXJet. They've all gone to great pains to welcome pilots (and even FAs) onboard, and by rolling out the red carpet, they've been able to secure many reciprocal j/s agreements. EOS is unfortunately acquiring a very bad reputation in the j/s community by not allowing off-line pilots onboard their flights. They need to open up their seats, whether its 'Luxury Class', 'First Class', 'Cargo Class' or 'Cattle Class', it makes no difference. 'Reciprocity' is exactly that: It is NOT a one-way street.

Did not have to look to far to see what you are saying is not true
 

Also the last time I jumpseated on Frontier there was a fellow from a carrier that was not on their list and he did not make it on the flight. I informed the Captain when I went down and he would have got him on but the other jumpseater left when he could not get by the gate agent. From what I have heard Eos is going by a list also, and it is growing all the time.

I think you are short changing all the hard work done by all the jumpseat folks at all the airlines that have worked so hard to make the present state of jumpseating what it is today. Each one of the pilot groups have fought a long uphill battle in some cases and even had to lose some ground on other issues at the table to secure jumpseats. My personal thanks goes out to all those individuals and from what is being said it seems that the Eos pilot group is fighting some of those same battles and indeed making progress. If they are the same as most airlines they are probably sacrificing personal time to do this work for the betterment of their pilot group at large.

My suggestion is how about backing off and letting these folks fight their battles. The answers are only within the realm of current possibilities, that certainly expand as time goes on. Take Delta for example it took years for the company to come around and now they even let on as many jumseaters as they have open seats. This would have been thought impossible just a few short years ago.

They've had 2 years, as of this summer. Plenty of time.

The difference between EOS and Delta is huge; DL was a major with worldwide routes. EOS has only 1 route, JFK-STN. EOS needs jumpseats to get their pilots to work, but almost noone uses them to commute. That is what I was referring to when I said this is not a ONE-way street.

Me thinks he doth protest too much
 

Obviously you have never negotiated with management. It does not seem to me that they have been flying long enough for you to have such a strong opinion. Heck they are probably still trying to get through some basic certification issues. If they are slick they are probably just now getting their Cat3 certification, and that would be in the min timeframe. You can bet that other issues besides what some whiney pilots have are in the forefront of their days activities. For the pilots to get managements attention in most startups during the first few years, it comes in small spurts of time that you can actually sit down with them and work on issues. While these issues are big to us, most managers of a startup are just to busy trying to run an airline to focus exclusively on some issues.

While you initially posted some comments with an alturistic tone, it would seem to me that your lack of patience and compassion that comes through in later post belies a certain hidden agenda that you seem to have regarding Eos.

B757200ER, all I'm asking is to not punish the EOS pilots. Jumpseating is a two-way street as you say but it still seems like you are taking your anger out on the rank and file and not directing it where it belongs. But I share your pain, when I was with Transmeridian a few years back I could not use Continental to commute from home to Houston where I was based. I never figured out if it was the MEC or management that did not want a jumpseat agreement with TMA and in the end it didn't really matter. I too was not happy about it but I did recognize that it was not the individual pilot who was to blame. If you see an EOS pilot in the terminal don't frown but tip your hat instead. Understand that each of the pilots you see is working very hard to change management's attitude about jumpseating. It is the EOS management that is attracting the bad reputation, it should not be the pilots.

Ganbare

B757... How long have you been in this industry? A 757 Captain? The "one way street" you refer to isnt an EOS pilots fault, its not the EOS pilots fault that they have one route at the present time. What are your thoughts on my type of flying? I work mostly through the night if its domestic, its rare that you would show up and ride our jumpseats... if that is not convenient for you does that mean I shouldnt have the priviledge of riding on your airline? Did your carrier come right out of the box with a full route structure, I doubt it? Why would you be so anti jumpseater? Unless a pilot group specifically made a stand to give up jumpseats for a pay increase cant you just smile and say "welcome aboard, glad we could get you there"? Ive only done this for 15 years... I can count on one hand how many times in my career I have been turned away from a jumpseat (never due to your reasoning, the seat was simply taken) or observed a jumpseat being denied. The last time I remember a jumpseat denied was a Delta pilot trying to ride on the Delta commuter I was employed with at the time. The deal was, a Delta pilot could simply walk up to the ticket counter and pay $15 on the spot for a pass so they really didnt "need" the jumpseat whereas for the Delta Connection pilot had to submit a written request through a pass bureau 2 weeks ahead at the low cost of $150. The scales werent exactly balanced there. The Delta guy was most likely making 6 figures and gets a pass for $15 on the spot, versus the commuter guy making $35,000 and has to pay $150 for a pass? When the Delta guy approached the ticket counter it was actually one of our flight attendants stading there, he didnt ask in the friendliest fashion for the ride... this flight attendant (been around a while and knew all too well of this battle) politely informed him he might be better off paying the $15 for a pass. The Delta guy became angry and told her "You know, with my ID I can just go right down stairs through operations and walk out to the airplane to see the captain". She smiled and said that might be a good idea... It was a much shorter trip for her to walk down the jet bridge so its easy to figure out who made it to the cockpit first. It only took about 30 seconds for this guy to be told to find a ride somewhere else.

Thanks for the lecture, MD. And that long, boring story. To answer you, I've been doing this 14 years. I know all about jumpseating and was an ALPA Jumpseat Chairman for a time. EOS pilots are welcome on my j/s---for now---but better get their managers to play ball.

End of story.

Die thread die.......
 

The mighty B757200ER has spoken and now we are at the end of the story if you do not make things according to his all encompasing vision of reality there will be hell to pay....oh my God get a life and leave the issues to the adults that take todays reality and see the potential for change and navigate the turns in the road to a bright new future that if you wait long enough will probably even change the things that you seek through your immediate gratification mentallity.

I remember a bottom feeder airline, Planet Airways, hired two bottom feeder guys who had no jet experience either. One was Sean Sweeney to be the chief pilot of a B727 operation of which the larges aircraft he flew was a SAAB 340 and Bob Braden who jumped from commuter to commuter. And true those morons got no respect from the pilot group either.

ockham... The sad thing is he was an ALPA jumpseat coordinator? With that attitude toward jumpseating Im sure his membership had the best representation. Any idea what carrier he is with?

I remember Planet... they were based out of CVG. The guy that owned the company owned a few hotels also. When a carrier takes a Saab 340 guy and makes him a 727 Chief Pilot its about the same as making some poor bastard the liquor permitee for a crap hole bar... just someone to take the heat and say yes.

Close... the carrier was based in KMCO. One of the money makers was Louis Pearlman of the boy band fame such as Backstreet Boys, In Sync. Pearlman is under investigation for defauding over 1,000 investors. You can access more information on this scumbag and his little scumbag friend Tony Decamillis through the Orlando Sentinal.

The one in CVG was Sunworld
 

All their Chief pilots were ex USair, Eastern and United 72 drivers

B757200ER,

What carrier do you fly for?

Ganbare

Not even close.

G.B.

I worked at TMA and Focus on the 747. Are you at Focus ?? A p.m. is fine if you prefer...

FF

I was unclear there
 

I was referring to Sunworld out of CVG.

What happened to Sunworld? B-727s, right?

Oh, and Ockham, Happy Commonwealth Day. I assume you're a Brit since your username is a VOR near London.

Sorry guys... I had Planet confused with Sunworld. Now that B757200ER mentioned it...

We have some guys that work where I am that were from Sunworld, the owner owns/owned some resorts and started an airline to shuttle people back and forth. DHL either was going to or did some training for Sunworld, they were asking some of the DHL 727 drivers if they wanted to fly there (Sunworld) on time off.

I believe Sun Pacific also flew B-727s, but they're out of business as well.

How many B-727Fs does DHL/A-Star have left?

About 40 727's, all the -100 and -200 non-advanced are gone. They were all replaced with 200 "advanced". Thats an oxymoron if you ask me... an airplane thats on the average of 30 years old shouldnt have the label advanced in its name. Ever get to fly one? Was an easy fun airplane to fly, I spent 5 years in it before stepping farther back in time to the DC-8.

I never flew it, but Engineered on it for 1 year when I first got hired at the majors.

You're lucky to have flown a DC-8; many years from now, you'll be telling young pilots you flew it, and they'll be very impressed.

I have a feeling that many years from now I'll still be telling young pilots that I still fly it. Upgrade at Astar is almost 7 years to go from the back seat to the right seat... IM guessing I wouldnt see a left seat there for another 10 years, thats 20 years to Captain. Once the age 65 change goes into effect it sure will change those current numbers.

do you know butt grease and jet lag?
 

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butt grease and jet lag are/were ABX pilots.

MuseumDriver is Astar.

Saw one of the "New Dawns" in EGSS the other day. Paint is already pealing from the upper fuesalage just in front ot the tail... It's down to the green. One would think with what they charge for a seat, they could afford a decent paint job. Well thats what happens when you use Earl Schibe. Next time better use MAACO.

Both the DC-8 and B-727 are fine ships. Yes they are old but can still get the Job done after 35+ years. I doubt you will see any 25 year old A320's-A340's flying when the time comes.
It's a pity really, I see many extemely attractive 40 +ish something French women in Paris. It is a shame Airbus can't mirror their women!