Delta j/s and first class no more?
 

I was j/s from LAX to Sydney recently and as soon I checked in at the gate the agent said that "you are not getting fist class". I really did not know what to say at first and after a pause I politely asked him why not. He said that it is the new Delta policy. Anyways, I got my seat assignment at the gate and introduced myself to the crew and did not bother to investigate further. Even economy seat is great when it's free but I wondering if any Delta guys could confirm the new policy? BTW Delta has always treated me great and I am not complaining... I am just asking... who does not like first class on an 15 hour flight :)

There were probably too many upgrades to where it made it impossible for you to get it.

Jumpseaters are always welcome in first when seats are available.

This is NOT policy. Once the door is closed, the crew should move you to first class. You just got a gate agent who is probably jealous of pilots and wants to make are lives difficult. Did the Captain or one of the flight attendants not offer you first class? Was there a seat available in first?

I had a similar experience JFK-LHR last winter. Checked in, flight wide open both classes. At gate the first agent assigned me a J-Class seat, and the woman with him said "you can't do that, he's a j/s. Only allowed to assign coach". A bit of a bummer, but the Purser moved me up as soon as boarding was done anyways. No biggy, I certainly appreciate the free ride but also wonder if this is a new policy (FWIW my buddies at CO tell me that IS their policy, so I avoid them across the pond.... CO coach is pretty bad).

It is wrong, tell the CA.

Better yet, report it to your JS Committee and then they will call ours.

When did DAL start service LAX to SYD ?


Fred

Off the top of my head, well over a year ago.

Thanks , I remember a couple of times flying into SYD that we had to circle a bit due to the 6 AM rule .



Fred

CAL assigns jumpseaters to coach. If you are lucky, someone will move you forward (if there is room). The pilot sometimes never know, so make an effort to introduce yourself. The flight attendants are another barrier. They may not want you up front where they have to work harder serving you. They've been known to fight the captain about moving people up.

Non-revs and deadheading crews do not always get first class either. Even the pilot's crew rest seat is in coach (737/757/767), but they can move up if there is room.

Don't blame CAL pilots, we will do whatever we can to help you. I wish the "policy" was different.

At DAL the gate agents have always put a JS in FC or the highest class offered if a seat was avail. I have never seen them leave a seat open like that. If that is some policy that has just been adopted by ACS, our JS chair needs a chain of incidents to arm himself with.
Once those cases start coming in he can approach the company and in turn ACS to deal with the issue. Until that time IF this is occurring there will be no one to refute it and the practice will grow.

I always thought the J/S policy for Delta was that you would always be assigned first for domestic flights but assigned coach for international flights. I've heard this from a few different people.

Last July........

I would EXPECT any airline to put a paying passenger in First Class over any non-rev. Especially one from a competing airline. That's just the smart thing to do. By upgrading a paying passenger, you can probably make a loyal customer for life--especially one who is already a frequent flyer on the airline.

I understand the "take of of crewmembers" idea, but I would passionately want my airline to take care of those who pay the bills. That gives the employees better pay/benefits and/or fewer furloughs etc..

Last winter my wife and I flew MEM-AMS on NW on the A330. We were in the first row of coach and saw at least 6-7 open in first class. No upgade for us. I had even talked to the crew.

Needless to say, NW/DL more than welcome in our first class...

They already do that for domestic flights. If you give away too many premium seats, then what is the future incentive to buy one. They could just put in for the free upgrade.

Were you riding on a ZED fare? ZED tickets are only good for coach on any airline.

I have NW pass privelages

Weird... When you listed yourself in Travelnet, did you list for First Class? What was the standby list screen at the gate showing? If there were seats available, you should have got them. I've been flying Delta for over nine years and I've always got a First Class seat when I listed for one and it was available.

Correction: I noticed you traveled before inventory cutover so you would have been traveling using the NWA non-rev listing and procedures. I'm not familiar with how that works.

Didn't NWA not upgrade their non-management pilots without you paying something.

I know many a time where a OAL JS rider comes to the flight deck, pokes their head in and has a FC seat. Yes, even international.

Sometimes gate agents just make mistakes or just don't care.

I know one time in November, I was commuting home and there were seats available in FC on a fNWA flight (I work for Comair). I was using my pass privilages and I was assigned a seat in coach, after I boarded 3 jumpseaters (I assume they were jumpseaters as I saw them at the gate talking to the gate agent) 2 Jetblue and 1 AA, boarded and sat in FC.

I wasn't really happy to see that, coach was wide open and since I was in uniform I wouldn't be fully able enjoy FC. So I let it go as it wasn't a big deal, I had a seat home and that is all I really cared about.

I also watched a DTW gate agent clear all off line JS'ers before Nonrevs on a DCI flight. (even the 2 of us pilots who were using our pass privelages to commute). When I looked at Travlnet (godbless the Iphone), he had coded the 4 Js'ers as UP4's or soemthing like that (showed that they were standby upgrades, usually if you already have a ticket in coach, I knew one of the guys JS'ing and he did not have a ps ticket). This put them above every non-rev on the list. Luckily everyone got on, because I'm not sure what we could have done (I guess I would have jumpseated to get to the head of the line).

That being said those are the only two instances I have had (or recall) in the last 5 years and they both happened in the past 7 months, so they very well maybe merger related growing pains.

And another question, Are the agents in SYD Delta employees or outsourced (swissport or something like that)? The reason I ask is sometimes the outsourced agents work 10 different airlines and maybe they got the policies confused.

Towards the end, coach non-rev was free but upgrades cost $30. Now, what an individual gate agent or crew did once you actually showed up is a whole other ballgame, but the "system" did not automatically upgrade you.

In my limited experience it is a f-NWA thing. NWA policy did not allow offline non-revs of any stripe into FC and while the occasional J.S. got in, it was the kindness of the flight crew who made it possible.

Anyone know if the f-NWA Agents are letting non revs into first?

To be clear, I don't hold the pilots accountable. I've got a few buddies working there and I know y'all are in a bit of a war with your F/As about it. And your crew rest policies... ouch. My last couple j/s experiences though have been middle seats on 4-hour legs with F open, and the CA 'asking' the lead to move me up and being denied, so not too optimistic about over-the-pond. At any rate the free ride is always appreciated, no matter where it is. Cheers:)

Hmm... my NWA experience both with Blue and my regional had me in F/C 99 percent of the time.

The FA's are sometimes trying to keep Biz-E open for themselves and their friends to plop down in (and eat the food). Captains let it happen rather than work with a team of PO'd FA's for the rest of the trip.

At least it makes me thankful for my wife's level headed, rational, fitness oriented personality. She thinks it is odd that I always come home and thank her for not being mean & crazy.

Used to not be allowed for non revs. Delta's policy is different.

I often think the same when I come home to the g/f... Although I've used Big D transatlantic twice from JFK now and EVERYONE, agents, FAs and Pilots have been great, despite JFK's overall rep. On the LHR flight the Purser moved me up a good 20 minutes prior to departure and the agent didn't blink an eye, much appreciated. By the same token the DL guy riding with me to AUS today said our j/s phone line had much less wait, hopefully that's improving for y'all.

This is a good way to find out just how entrenched CAL management is in supporting ground staff and flight attendants in lieu of considering pilots point of view, in fact in opposition to pilots. If you make the point of "upgrading" jumpseaters at CAL, you are falling on your own sword. This is a systematic approach to defrock and belittle pilots, both those working in the cockpit and traveling, regardless of the airline that employs that pilot, all at the hands of CAL mgt.

Consequently CAL pilots that have tried to fight this understood policy repeatedly, end up being made examples of. Jumpseat Committee? Ha! Powerless. It serves as yet another example of how compromised ALPA is at CAL.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there Bar. In my experience, NWA always upgraded J/S to first when there was room available. Not only that, but it was the gate agents doing so. I use to ride on them all the time years ago. Maybe I just got lucky.

People are not going to pay $20 more for a ticket on a particular airline despite a one time courtesy upgrade. All this is going to cause is an influx of passengers hounding the gate agents before every flight for an upgrade. Give it to them once for
free and they will expect to be upgraded everytime.

Sorry Bar, but I never saw that happen...if you were listed for first and there are seats available...you got it. Typically the FAs offer the FC to the jump seaters if its available...doesn't mean they have to.

Bar,

As a long time "lurker", I've read many of your posts, and agreed with a majority of them. This one, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you sir. (Short story made long below)

I used to work for a regional based in the midwest. That regional in 2005 moved their entire operation, other than HQ, to the East Coast. Said regional referenced was Air Wisconsin. Anyway, I commuted on NWA from my N.D. home, and it was more the norm than the exception that I received a first class seat. This due to the generosity of all involved in the airline operation. (i.e. Agents, Flight attendants, and cockpit crew) <Can I even say "cockpit" these days?>:)

So, to enlighten your thoughts of it being a f-NWA policy that does not allow for crewmembers in First Class, as I said above, I will disagree with you on this opinion.

Secondly, according to your previous posts and thoughts of "lost status quo", the constant outsourcing of our jobs to the lowest bidder, (i.e. regionals flying the Delta 100-seater), and furloughs this fall, I've included a website that might be helpful for changing your opinion, or hopefully at least reducing a slight amount of stress in your life.

Finally, it's 30 degrees in N.D. right now. Sun is shining, no wind, and nothing to worry about for at least another month until the Red River reaches it's record breaking 500 year flood levels again, for the second year in a row.:rolleyes: (When you guys bidding the best base in the system? MSP):D

GJ

Living To 100 Life Expectancy Calculator

According to that, I need to save more. Going to at least 90.

It was official policy. I'll look for it so you can read for yourself. We do a good bit of travel throughout Asia and due to the duration of the flights, it would have been nice, had it been available.

Thanks for respectfully disagreeing.

(looking, will update if I can find the link, many internal documents are blocked from off site searching)

Labor relations 101!
Do not like it force a change.

AMR is the same way, and 95% of the CA's will come out of the cockpit after the door closes, find the JS riders and tell them to move up front.

I will be the first to agree with Bar in that Fnwa almost exclusively in my years that I worked there would NEVER upgrade a non-rev from another airline..Now that being said in the case of J/S'rs that is another story...I will relate a small story..I was traveling as a non-rev employee of NWA from MEM-HNL via SEA..I paid for f/c travel and at fnwa if you flew any segmant in f/c you paid the f/c charge for the ENTIRE trip. I had flw f/c from MEM-SEA and was waiting in gate area and was seated next to an off duty UAL pilot in civilian clothes he had his jumpseat slip in his hand..Well he went away and boarded and I was one of the last ones at the gate and was informed that there were no more f/c left and they gave me a coach seat (middle seat on the DC-10)..Well we boarded using door 2L so you go left for f/c right for coach..After we get to HNL I am getting off and who do I see get out of a f/c seat?..The offline UAL pilot...I was LIVID..I got the j/s er in the jetway..I know it was not his fault but I had to ask him if he indeed was a j/ser...He indicated he was...I informed him that I was active employee of NW and had paid for an f/c seat and did not get it. I said that I hoped he enjoyed the ride up there because I paid for it. Again I told him hey I know it is not your fault but that I just wanted to let him know that an injustice was done in my case..So there you have a case where the j/ser got the better end of the deal...I will bet any problems you have with DL not upgrading I will bet it is a fnwa agent..My 2 cents.

Nonrevs would get left with seats open in first at FNWA due to their system. Jumpseaters however would typically go and take an open seat in first with the permission of the CA and lead FA.

Had a NWA gate agent tell me one time when I was jumpseating "I can't ride in first, so you can't ride in first."

Ah, culture...

Strato & 80,

Again, not to call anyone out, as I "respectfully" disagreed with Bar and his comment to the fact that it was NWA policy.

I agree with the both of you when you tell me that an "offline jumpseat" might've gotten a first class seat before an employee pass riding/non-revving on the same flight, but in my years of working for NWA, now Delta, I have yet to see the "policy" written anywhere stating such.

To reiterate the meaning of my post. I'm not saying anyone posting their experiences are wrong in the fact that they possibly did get the "shaft" without even as much as a "hug" afterwards, I just have yet to see the "policy".

As you all know, from being in this industry as long as you have, what is a hard & fast rule, and what might actually be some "****ed off, disgruntled gate agent's" policy (because they've been chewed out by yet another passenger for the flight delay, weather delay, or ATC delay) can often times clearly be two separate subjects.

Fly safe,

GJ

Just to refresh your memory.... Jumpseaters went as Y9H. Y was a coach only pass under the NWA system. They were split between F and Y class passes... remember? :)

Whatever airline......If you get a seat anywhere on the plane (JS, First, Coach) while on a JS status, you make more than an 'effort' to introduce yourself to the flight deck.....period.

JS 101.

80,

I do in fact remember, and although a jumpseater was listed as a "9H" under the NRSA system, when the agent "released" the seats they could release a seat in "first class" instead of "economy" regardless of how the person was "listed" for the flight.

Again, and I'll sound like a stuck record when repeating myself multiple times, it was completely at the agents discretion as to whether they would release the listing under a "first class vacancy" or maintain the status of the listing for the flight and issue an economy class seat instead. (READ-No specific policy saying that they couldn't, unless of course Bar comes up with something and then I'll have to eat CROW for the previous three posts of mine.) Disclaimer: Never have seen a policy saying they couldn't release a first class seat for someone listed as a 9H.

Has nothing to do with how a person was listed for the flight, but instead what the agent chose to "release for seats" when the rest of the flight had already been boarded. Hence, my receiving a first class seat multiple times when jumpseating on NWA.

GJ