The 737-800 and 777 achieved higher payrates relative to weight and speed then other equipment on the property at Delta via the 3B6 process. They were new aircraft. DALPA took the position that since these were new very efficient aircraft both from a fuel and crew standpoint (3man to 2 man) that they should be paid accordingly. DALPA was able at the time able to negotiate industry leading rates on both aircraft out side the normal contract negotiations. THese rates directly lead to the UAL contract and follow on Delta contract in 2001. Since the rates were negotated as new equipment within the 3b6 contract section the other aircraft were not up for rate changes. There has been some equalization in the rates in follow on contracts but they still pay a premium relative to other equipment.

 

Have the lad bid the 320. He'll enjoy a cooler summer in the cockpit than those DC-9 series birds, have a table to eat off and have a really cool side stick.

 

Guys this is not true:

737-800 carries 160 passengers
A 320 carries 148 passengers

Both 737-700 and A319 carry 124 Passengers

Ranges are very similar 800 listed as 2840 on travelnet and the 320 listed as 3009. Not sure of the 700 and the 319 but I do know the 700 can go further than the 800.


Scoop - Who has flown the US Navy 737-700 over 3700 miles with a headwind (LERT-KNGU). Same fuel capacity as the DAL birds.

 

Heyas Fed,

The LOA 19 rates were concocted to manipulate the SLI process. Nothing more.

Really, a 777 paying the same as a 747-400 that seats near 100 more people? A 330-300 that pays the same as a 767-400?

All the other "speed/range/lift" BS is just eyewash. They couldn't go into the SLI with the an LOA that was wholly concocted by the fDAL side that paid more for heavy NWA metal. It would have been used as evidence in the SLI hearing, probably to great effect.

But they couldn't figure out a way to bias ALL the payrates without being too obvious, so they (correctly, IMO), biased the top end, figuring that was where the benefit was. Thus your MD-88 rates.

Thanks to that strategy, we're now stuck with those rates. I can pretty much guarantee you after 2012, the "formula" will mysteriously change to put the rates back the way they "should" be. Your 'A' shouldn't be that grumpy about it...his position on the seniority list was probably improved significantly by this strategy.

Nu

 

I meant from a payload standpoint, but I'm probably still wrong.

Anyway, water under the bridge. Maybe we'll address it in 2012.

 

Considering DL was higher paying all the way around before LOA 19... your argument isn't all that great. And of couse there was posturing for the SLI... I remember hearing "super premium" being tossed around a lot along with a lot of other things from both sides. It's idiotic to say anything otherwise for both sides. It's done. Over. Move on!

I agree the 747-400 should probably pay a bit more than the 777, and the 319/320 should pay the same as the 737s.

Other than that, everything seems just about right as far as pay grade ranking.

 

In the end we voted for the JPWA, not LOA 19. The JPWA superseded LOA 19 as that was a DAL-S deal only.

Point is, to change the way the rates are requires significant input to your reps. As they say as to why, it is water under the bridge.

 

The 800 is 173,000 mtow.... 320 is 166,400.

Considering that the 320 is newer tech with them fancy composites and tables... thats prob equivalent to the same.

 

Exactly. Everyone has moved on, but the question was asked (and I heard this same question quite a bit), and as Clamp said, of course it was part of the SLI dance.

Don't forget to put the recall efforts in context with LOA19. Parts of the MEC were walking a tightrope, and there were definite survival moves made to pacify certain factions of the ATL population. Had LOA19 placed the two "premium" WB NWA jobs over the two DAL WB jobs, you can bet heads would have rolled in ATL.

Nu

 

Except for certain aspects of the cockpit, the 320 is not newer tech. Several of the original NWA A320's have already been chopped up (88/89 deliveries, go figure).The 737NG series has a redesigned wing (25% greater area) that is more efficient than that of the 320 series. Taking off from equivalent runways, the 737-800 carries more passengers farther than the A320. As Sailingfun pointed out, there are many times where Delta 737-800's make the west coast out of JFK when JetBlue is fuel stopping. The 737-700 in Delta's configuration has substantially greater performance than the Delta A319 in runway allowable and climb limit weights plus range. The Airbus does have some significant customer advantages with a wider fuselage resulting in more internal space, and its cockpit is substantially more spacious.

The MD-88/90 are range limited when compared to either of the products above, which is why they've been moved from SLC to MSP.