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-   -   Ual/cal Scope (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/50267-ual-cal-scope.html)

Eric Stratton 05-01-2010 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by avi8tor4life (Post 804535)
Look at the range the 70 seaters have now. What airplane has it replaced? UAL has put crj-700s on old 737 runs where mainline flew. So I do think there is a difference between 70 and 50 seats.
The 50's can barely make it above 30k and have all kinds of weight issues. They should be "feed" not destination flights: I.e. Sbn-Ord, pia-Ord not Sfo-Sat, or Lax-Dfw.

You should keep looking because you'll find old 737 routes that have 50 seaters on them as well.

Coto Pilot 05-01-2010 10:19 AM

I non reved on SkyWest yesterday from LAX to SLC and back, my first time since my September furlough. My wife and daughter without any prompting from me both commented on how small the CRJ700 was and how they were both uncomfortable on an aircraft that size. I was a 2000 hire at United and initially flew the Shuttle. All of the flights United had going into SLC while I was there yesteday, LAX, SFO, DEN were RJ's, they all used to be 737's. I will comment that the flight attendants on SkyWest were all young, female attractive and had a better attitude than most of their counterparts at United.

757Driver 05-01-2010 02:09 PM


Originally Posted by chuckyt1 (Post 804464)
As to the scope debate and how it relates to contracts - Does it matter whether a FFD operator departs with a 50 seat or 70 seat airplane?

This is an easy one to answer.

CAL, 50 seat scope = 147 furloughees.
UAL, 70 seat scope = 1500 furloughees.

Yes it does matter.

dojetdriver 05-01-2010 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by Coto Pilot (Post 804710)
I non reved on SkyWest yesterday from LAX to SLC and back, my first time since my September furlough. My wife and daughter without any prompting from me both commented on how small the CRJ700 was and how they were both uncomfortable on an aircraft that size.

Sadly, LOTS of mainline aircraft these days are pretty uncomfortable as well. Ever ride on a CAL 737/757 in coach?


Originally Posted by Coto Pilot (Post 804710)
I was a 2000 hire at United and initially flew the Shuttle. All of the flights United had going into SLC while I was there yesteday, LAX, SFO, DEN were RJ's, they all used to be 737's.

Nothing but the purest example of what happens when scope gets relaxed. Sucks you lost your job because of it.


Originally Posted by Coto Pilot (Post 804710)
I will comment that the flight attendants on SkyWest were all young, female attractive and had a better attitude than most of their counterparts at United.

How SkyWest does it, I'd like to know. I wish not only the majors, but the other "regionals" could take note.

Fritzthepilot 05-02-2010 03:45 AM


Originally Posted by 757Driver (Post 804772)
This is an easy one to answer.

CAL, 50 seat scope = 147 furloughees.
UAL, 70 seat scope = 1500 furloughees.

Yes it does matter.

There's actually another prevailing belief as to why United has 1450 furloughs vs the 147 at Continental. Scope was the relief valve, but many, if not most at United, believe that Tilton sacrificed his own in order to induce a merger.

Jinrai Butai 05-02-2010 03:51 AM


Originally Posted by 757Driver (Post 804772)
This is an easy one to answer.

CAL, 50 seat scope = 147 furloughees.
UAL, 70 seat scope = 1500 furloughees.

Yes it does matter.

CAL 4,804 Total Pilots

UAL 7,733 Total Pilots

Yes, it does matter, but that isn't the only reason. To assume it is would be a major mistake. Beware of "easy answers".


Originally Posted by PSACFI (Post 804045)
What I would like to see is the 70+ seat fleet capped where it is at and then a deal worked out where 100 seaters go to mainline. Even that though would be hard to pull off.

Best of luck to CAL/UAL pilots.

Your points are the most likely to be true. Airline managers at American, Southwest, Airtran and other competitors are hoping the CAL/UAL pilots hold firm to the idea of turning back the clock to 1978.

Fritzthepilot 05-02-2010 04:15 AM


Originally Posted by PSACFI (Post 804045)
What I would like to see is the 70+ seat fleet capped where it is at and then a deal worked out where 100 seaters go to mainline. Even that though would be hard to pull off.

Best of luck to CAL/UAL pilots.

Why would that be hard to pull off? UAL scope is capped at 70 seats. The only way around that would be a code share agreement which would quickly end up in court.

contrail67 05-02-2010 05:39 AM


Originally Posted by Fritzthepilot (Post 804948)
There's actually another prevailing belief as to why United has 1450 furloughs vs the 147 at Continental. Scope was the relief valve, but many, if not most at United, believe that Tilton sacrificed his own in order to induce a merger.


My question is if CAL went to United's work rules how many jobs would that create? would be interested in knowing, but I don't have both contracts.

757Driver 05-02-2010 05:53 AM


Originally Posted by Jinrai Butai (Post 804949)
CAL 4,804 Total Pilots

UAL 7,733 Total Pilots

Yes, it does matter, but that isn't the only reason. To assume it is would be a major mistake. Beware of "easy answers".

Not sure I'm following your train of thought.

Would you mind sharing with us what you think about the disparity regarding the furloughees?

CAL = 3% furloghees/total Pilot group
UAL = 19%

I'd say the 70 seat scope has plenty to do with the large difference.

SoCalGuy 05-02-2010 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by contrail67 (Post 804968)
My question is if CAL went to United's work rules how many jobs would that create? would be interested in knowing, but I don't have both contracts.

I have heard this before and not sure I see the logic/reason??

If CAL went under UAL's work rules, how would it "create" jobs??? If UAL's rules were going to do so, how come not a single UAL furlough has been brought back. Didn't the the most recent furlough just take place as recent as this past fall/winter of 2009??? I have not heard of any 'new'/or recently changed rules that would all of a sudden make this happen either??

If I'm missing something, I'd really like to know the reasoning for this fact (no sarcasm in this question).


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