What's the "Latest and Greatest" at UAL/CAL?
 

I knew someone would start this thread!

Its soooooooooooo obvious; with United's 200 widebodies on property, plus an order for 25 787's with options for an additional 50 787's and Continental's 100 widebodies and all their new 737s, we will not only take over the world but a new bid is opening for the Mars sub-orbit route.

With sub-market wages, the combined entity will make enough profit to pay for national health-care.

Back on topic....

With no route overlap, the industry will not be able to compete. It will once again remind me of when I got hired at United in 1999 with Captain bids going to guys with 3 years on property

WOW. Can I have some of what you're drinking?? I sure hope you are right. That sure would be nice.:D

It's a little sad living in Houston and having to watch the hometown name go away. I'm a little surprised CAL is doing it, they seemed to be weathering the storm pretty well, I hope Tilton doesn't change too much with the operation. Best of luck guys!

There is about 15% overlap that could be cut meaning about 1500 pilot jobs lost (plus the 1500 already on the street), but you can keep dreaming. See you in the unemployment line. :(

First off, just because there is route overlap does not mean that capacity will be eliminated. There are revenue passengers occupying those seats today on both airlines at an average of about 80% load factor. Maybe if there were 10 flights a day, they might cut it to 9 to boost load factor to 90%... but I don't even see that happening.


How many pilots got laid off after Delta and Northwest merged? And that was right before the the largest economic downturn since the Great Depression. United and Continental are about to merge right before an upswing in the economy...

I have to admit that I'm pretty jealous. I sure wish I was a UAL or CAL pilot right now. The future is looking up for you guys.

Are many of the overlap cities Connection? If so you may have your answer right there.

This is all about controlling capacity in the domestic and international markets. As sad as it may make you and me to watch the CAL name go away, long term it will be good for both companies and both pilot groups. That being said anyone with aspirations of going to CAL should be ready to wait, it will probably be awhile (5+ years).

At least Jeff Smisek will be calling the shots and not Tilton. There might be some light at the end of the tunnel. Best of luck to all my good friends at CAL, and all the good folks at UA, interesting times ahead.

Delta and Northwest cut lots of overlap, it just happned to be RJ's so there were no mainline furloughs. I'd be a little worried if I were working for one of the rj operators. UAL and CAL also did alot of mainline cutting in 2008 right after they didn't merge that time. I'd imagine they looked and said, "hey if we merge we don't need all this stuff." Then they thought about cutting that while fighting with unions and said let's not merge until 2010 and we can just cut all that stuff easier." I doubt you will see enough cuts at the mainline level to furlough more guys. Just my uneducated opinion after going through the DAL/NWA merger. Hopefully this goes good because I know a bunch of good guys at both airlines.

Hey only about 36,462 posts to go until you catch the Delta thread, which has become so dull we are discussing how they figure out our pay for each check while a couple guys fight about MEC stuff.

You can always count on at least 1 negative attitude...don't be so confident of your outlook.

I'll do what I can to help this one get going.... :D

I would not want to be the arbiter with that SLI in my hands. That one is going to be difficult with all the guys on the street.

As far as the airline itself, definitely a monster in the making if it's run well.

Rocky,

Don't forget about the laundry debate. But I will admit, I was all over the NRT issue only to find out the problem was in AMS. I need to get out more.

Good luck UAL/CAL.......a merger is like a prostate exam, but it'll be over soon

Ferd <------now has the tshirt

How involved will Tilton be post-merger? In this article it says he will be a
non-executive CEO for two years, and Smisek will be the CEO. How active is a non-executive CEO?

United, Continental could announce merger on Monday - USATODAY.com

What needs to happen to make it work
 

Thought this was funny. Ray Neidl says the biggest hurdle is unions, and that the pilots are just a bunch of "prima donna's.":rolleyes:

Thats exactly what I was thinking. My original post was completely sarcastic and some typical pilot wants to correct the error in the joke. Is somebody else going to correct my Mars sub orbit comment as well?

Of course, the huge UAL widebody presence is all fact.

No flame Otto, normally you are pretty level headed.

Plus, lets get back on topic discussing "the latest and greatest" for the new UAL.

Carpe Diem

My .02, make sure your unions spend some time, actually a great deal of time ironing out a better contract. Demand that your MECs work together and explain to the company that the only way you'll sign off on a JCBA is with circa 2000 compensation and work rules. Oh, and no 70-seat RJs. If not, make sure the MEC convinces Tilton that it'll never be one airline any other way. This is where the DAL NWA merger was a total failure to the profession and how we ended up with 255 70 seat jets and 100 something 76 dual-class RJs. Sadly, but we owe most of our success to the US Air pilots for towing the line and tossing the BS flag. Their loss was our gain. Learn from both of us and 2010 going forward will be pivotal. Even APA may end up with a contract by 2020.

Spot on! Hold the line on scope and make sure they know they cant do the merger without the pilots on board...

The larger the airline, the greater the opportunity to park RJ's, especially 50-seaters. When two airlines serve the same city with a dozen RJ's combined, you create an opportunity to maintain excellent schedules/frequencies, and more efficient aircraft. Five A-319's a day is penty frequent enough...

Okay, if it were me and I've said this before, if Delta merges with Alaska then I think the furloughed pilots there should be counted as if they were not furloughed- even though it would negatively affect me.

You're right.

That's why USAir management gets this award:

http://site.despair.com/images/dpage/mistakes03.jpg

That's not fair Rocky! We also try to sneak in some underboob below the radar scan of the moderators. How quickly we become stilted!;)

"UCON" Air Lines !!! Best of luck to both sides as the merger moves forward. UAL will be flying "Yuppy Guppies" again !!

And remember, if half the pilots on both sides of the merger are pi$$ed,...then its a fair merger. :)

deleted......

You might want to check your wide body numbers. The two airlines combined don't have 150 wide bodies on the property.

When you guys went through this did the "new" contract get voted down at any point or did the company put together something they knew would pass.

You all realize approx 1500 pilots retire at the combined airline in the next 5 years, it will take 2-3 to put a combined list together and start flying together best case. I will not be surprised to see hiring well before 5 years.

in denial...... More furloughs on the way.

Exactly - I think that this merger will be good for the profession as a whole. Good luck, guys.

Your correct, there are 149 combined not counting either airlines widebody orders/options. Still a lot of big airplanes.

Maybe, all I now is I cant get a vacation drop (due to no coverage)every time I asked for it the last few months.

IMHO I think MEC's will get a no furlough agreement short term and retirements will take care of that possibility in long term.

I think they meant to say non-executive chairman of the board of directors.

going to United's work rules and a buyout will accomplish alot.

Exactly. If the MECs get a 3 year no furlough(really 2.5) agreement, age 65 retirements will kick in Dec '12.

At Delta we had a list in about 3 months, and were flying together in 1 yr and 5 months after date of closing on the deal. What prevented furlough here was our 8 billion fleet types.

Don't think so. I think furloughs were avoided by the efforts of one man who convinced Richard Anderson that furloughs would have a negative financial impact that didn't show up on a spreadsheet.

UAL/CAL will be successful only if their pilot leaders stay focused on a long term view, and ignore the whining from the pilots who will be angry at the way things are going - only because they're angry regardless of how things are going.

Really? Well I guess we all ought to head for the circuit court and get our BK papers in early. :rolleyes:

What would this whole thing mean for regionals that fly for them?

Not 100% sure, but I've added 10,000 shares of XJT to the 401(k) holdings.

---------

I agree with the single man theory and as he heads back to the line, the combined DAL list needs to make sure he never buys another beer or dinner on a layover.

Yep...I am right there too.