RJSAviator76

You are absolutely right. They shouldn't be. Why? Because you have people lining up to join this fray. There is also a vast amount of ignorance as well as arrogance plaguing our industry, and your argument right up there is why I do not consider airline pilots to be 'professionals.' At least not in the US.

A true professional can leave his job, take his skills and experience and apply it somewhere else without skipping a beat, and even get an immediate raise by switching jobs. In the US airline industry... good luck with that.

Forget your newhires for a moment. Let's talk about that 767 captain...

So let's say he/she doesn't like the idea of merging with UAL and wants nothing to do with the new company. Well... can't pack up and go to Delta because he'll have to go back to making first year FO pay. How can you call that pilot a professional? He can't take his skills and go elsewhere.

On the other hand, you can have a G-IV pilot who was working for $140,000/year for Brand X. Now, this pilot notices things aren't quite right at his work, so this pilot decides to take his skills to Brand Y and he's fortunate that they value his experience and they're willing to start him at $155,000/year.

Which one of these is your "professional?" Apples and oranges?

OK, let's use airline-to-airline.

We all know that Emirates is in a huge hiring drive. They need something like 800 pilots within a year. Unlike in the US, at Emirates, your first year, you will live rather nicely. You'll have your housing fully paid for, utilities covered, you will be driven to/from work by the company, you will get your retirement, and you'll get your salary which ends up just being your pocket cash which is a little over $7000/month.

Let's say you spent 10 years at Emirates. You're a B-777 captain with several thousand hours in type, but you decide you don't want to be in Dubai anymore. You want to try something else. So you apply to Korean Air. You're hired, and off you go. Sorry, no $31/hour and back to FO on something, and you have commuting schedules. Instead, say hello to another 6-digit salary right off the bat.

Korean not your cup of tea? Wanna be in Europe? OK, there's Turkish Airlines - part of Star Alliance. You're based in Istanbul. Oh no... no $31/hour and disregarding your experience there either.

Let's suppose you're an FO... you're not a captain. No sweat... again, no $31/hour for you.

To answer your question as to why should newhires be paid more than pittance... if you don't know the answer to this, then you shouldn't be.

As I said before, pilots are their own worst enemies, and as long as US pilots continue to remain oblivious to the rest of the world and choose to remain beaten down, with no sense of their self-worth, and severely lagging behind their counterparts worldwide, they deserve everything they get.

US airline pilots should be the world leaders in every meaning of the word. The only thing the US airline pilots have over the rest of the world is experience. Your average US pilot is way more experienced than his counterpart overseas, and that's huge... but that inexperienced overseas counterpart is paid substantially more than a US pilot. Now, I don't know about you, but I find that embarrassing.

Until your average US pilot realizes that.....

logic1

A pilot that qualifies for food stamps does not have a safe ring to it.
Money affects lifestyle, lifestyle affects safety,and pax like safety.
Thats what I think I would have said.

DAL 88 Driver

Now, they look at the financial implications (the amount of debt necessary to get in and a career that is only worth about HALF what it used to be) and they don't start down the path.

If we want to attract the same caliber people to this profession that it has historically attracted, we are going to have to get the compensation back to what had been the norm for decades prior to the past few years. That will take care of the standards issue all by itself. But, in the meantime, I'm all for raising the standards too. Higher standards and higher compensation compliment each other.

tomgoodman

Many pilots would consider tips an insult, because of the implication that passengers have the right to judge the quality of the pilot's work. Almost none of them are qualified to make such a judgment, even though they frequently do so. Besides, management and the IRS would start to include "imputed tip income" in our salaries, and act accordingly.

GW258

A tip jar would be great. It would make the news the very day.

The union brass would be shamed though.

Other than that, we should consider the benefits of grasping the union concept.

Pielut

This is not true in all cases, the grass is not greener. I am on the other side and the above statement is riddled with ignorance.

In regard to tips, I have constantly heard pilots compare this profession to being a Doctor or a lawyer. Do you see a tip jar outside the OR? If you want to be paid like a Dr. or a Lawyer, quit and become one. Pilots are labor, you can only get paid what you can negotiate. Don't throw away your dignity for a lousy tip jar.


(I do agree in most cases that pilot pay needs to be improved)

Eric Stratton

So raise the bar to ridiculous levels so that the supply comes down. Interesting strategy.

Having several thousand hours before you reach that 300 instrument time should tell you how ridiculous that requirement would be.

RJSAviator76

So let me see if I understand this. You're living "on the other side" and because of that, my statement is riddled with ignorance?

What if I told you I was poached out of my last job with a very nice package and incentive to come on over as a captain on a large cabin bizjet? There ARE no certainties, you're right about that. However, in the US airline industry, it is ABSOLUTELY certain that you're going in as a first year FO making an insulting wage regardless of your experience.

Pielut

I would say great! Then ask you how you got the job. All I am saying is that this exact situation is an exception, not the rule.

If you take the job.

I think maybe I did not explain myself clearly enough. What I am saying is that in professional non-aviation jobs, you are not always going to get the same or better pay for moving to another job or losing the one you have. Ask any professional with a good bit of experience who was making great money and lost their job. Most of them are taking jobs way below their previous pay level if they can get a job at all.

DAL 88 Driver

What you are missing is that in professional non-aviation jobs, it is possible to get the same or better pay for moving to another job or losing the one you have. Nobody said it's going to happen in every situation (nothing's guaranteed in life) but it is possible, and the outcome can be influenced by the individual's experience, track record, work ethic, motivation, etc. As an airline pilot, this kind of a lateral move is not possible.