Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 882745)

PG, if we once again are in the position we were in a few years ago, we should use the experience that the NWA FA's showed us. They voted "No," and did not have a contract imposed upon them. Why? No judge wants to be the first, no matter what they say. It is uncharted waters.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped (Post 882744)

First of all, I can't even figure out what you are trying to say, as this doesnt make any sense.... But I get the gist.

Let me explain a few things to you. As UAL is closest to the next round of contract completion, let's look there. The union scope proposal is that ALL flying comes in house. How close we get to that goal, leverage will dictate, but I think you can see the mood of the pilot group with that position. I PROMISE you this. Scope will not be relaxed. Any flying over 70 seats will be done by the mainline, and the Aer Lingus debacle will go away. See, while you are thinking about the bottom side, we are being attacked on ALL sides.

In Bankrupcy I lost my Pension. I lost most of my work rules. I lost 50% of my pay and my seat. But the thing that ****es me off most is being number 20 for takeoff at Ohare and being the only mainline airplane out there. Or getting bumped from my 1 hour flight home because the piece of crap 50 seater my airline subbed for the 767-300 that USED to fly the route can't go out full. Someone mentioned that it will be great when more RJ guys are flying at majors because you "get it". Well, some of you "get it".... Some most definitely do not. We can't win with you guys. Get creamed in BK and relax scope and we are "eating our young". If we manage to get all 150 70 seaters parked there will be cries for putting regional guys on the street.

I've been through every RJ scope vote we've ever had. The decisions you decry as stupid weren't as easy as you make them out to be. I was there. I know. You weren't. The big one was the opening of the floodgates on the 70's, as the 50's are now basically worthless with oil at $80. That concession was made during Ch11. Do you know what the company proposed for scope in the 1113c filing? No scope. Gone. Zero. Nada. Should we have risked the judge allowing that contract or taken what we did? Well the judge gave the company pretty much everything they asked for, so... Pretty risky, wouldn't you say?

I'm ranting, but I've taken enough crap from a bunch of guys who have been in the industry for a couple of years who think they have all the answers. Come talk to me in 20 years and we will see how it turned out. In the meantime, ill bet anyone here $10,000 that scope is not relaxed in the next UAL contract.

Oh, and as far as "mainline pilots eating our young", I don't have any responsibility to you. Flying for United Express doesn't make you "my young". My responsibility is to the 1400 men and women at my company whose jobs have been outsourced.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 882699)

It's possible for mainline to hold the line at certain times (like possibly right now, since they are PO'ed and feeling the full effects of their past actions).

Originally Posted by lolwut (Post 882703)

One thing we hopefully have going for us in the future is that mainline pilot groups will be more and more comprised of former RJ pilots... who understand the whole problem better and, having been on both sides of it, will stand their ground.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 882710)

Many Major Captains are finally getting it as they seat their WB seats divided up amongst joint venture carriers.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 882728)

Me too. I was leaning to last time, when we moved the line from 70 to 76, but the bankruptcy environment is too one sided, and I didn't think we'd prevail. Next time, absent BK, I'm a no vote if they try to move the line.