Been trying to understand the whole RLA/NMB contract negotiating process. As a United pilot I'm obviously interested in other pilot groups doing well in their own negotiations, and I'm looking to better understand the "reality" of how long our management can string us along before we're "released". So the question is: what's going on at AMR? Why hasn't APA gotten a contract? When did negotiations start? What is APA's leadership saying?

Anyways, just trying to better understand this whole process and I'm curious about what's going on with my fellow pilots at APA so thanks to any and all that take the time to answer.


Joe Peck
IADFO-76/75

 

I think the reality these days is that the NMB (National Mediation Board) isn't going to release anyone to strike anymore, unless it's a minor player like Spirit or something. I'm sure words like "critical to the national economy" and "putting 75,000 people out of work" would come up.

Thus, labor has no "big stick" to threaten management with - thus, management can string you along until you agree to what they want.

 

Yep on ice at AMR seems to be the new normal from the fun system of the RLB. Plus when you throw in JP Morgan alum Bill Daley at WH Chief of Staff the odds of UAL getting released look poor.

 

See the thread about AMR losing $436 million in the first quarter...

 

Well at AA, that was exactly what AMR liked as they were more then happy to stall the process out till whenever. Now, it seems they are becoming more agressive and receptive with the new APA leadership and supposedly have made more progress in the last 4 months, then the previous 4 years. I think, it's no longer in AMR's best interest to stall and they would like labor stability and so it seems like their finally may be some hope of hammering out something acceptable to both sides. The final issues of pay and scope will be the big dogfight with scheduling/reserve and pension seemingly progressing.

If the whole process stalls out, it would seem to only increase the chances of BK and palatable deals with all the mainline labor and an avoidance of BK would seem preferable to a return back to the past and a high likelyhood of BK.

We'll have to watch the summer go by to get a better handle pilot contract-wise on where things are going and if this real or another tapdance.

 

That's funny; I thought APA was waiting to see what happens at UAL (LOL).

At the last APA meeting I attended (March), we were told that to get the NMB back to the table we have to get the issues down to about half a dozen. The NMB doesn't stand around helping the parties wade through 300 items in a 200 page contract. They only facilitate the end game. APA started negotiating in 2006, and in that time period we managed to complete about 15 items. The fact is that regardless of how large a concessionary contract every pilot group has signed since 2001, getting lost pay and benefits back is a multi contract effort. APA spent too much time trying to get it all back at once, and the NMB wasn't playing the game.

So now we are basically starting from square one (last fall), and to date we have made significant progress. But we still have a long way to go (read that 18 to 24 months).

 

"No you go first . . . no you . . . no you"



Not sure if you're still hangin' around this thread as I haven't checked the forum in a couple weeks, but:

Can you tell me what gives you the 18-24 month sense?


Past negotiation patterns, rules, NMB comments, or something else.


Boy I really hope not 'cuz it'd be nice to have a new contract this year rather than 2013, and I like to think that given that the NMB board has new members appointed by Obama, labor may have a slightly more sympathetic ear at the table than APA did at the start of their negotiations.



Thanks for all the good info guys,

Joe

 

1.Pay
Per Diem--Domestic should equal US meal and incidental rate for New York City which is currently 64/day. International- 7.5% of pilot's hourly rate.
Night override raised from 5$/hour to 5% of pilot's hourly rate.
Holiday Pay-Double time
Probationary Pay-58% of Captain rate in 1st year and 59% of Captain rate for year 2.
Drug testing- 30 minutes at current pilot's pay rate.
Computer Stipend Proposal-$150/mo. per pilot for computer costs--i.e. internet, computer, etc.

2. Scope
Simple-- All flying done by or on behalf of the company will be done by the pilots of American Airlines currently on the seniority lists.

3. Variable Compensation
Several formulas for profit sharing including a pension contribution.

4. Work Rules
APA chooses all hotels for the pilots. Administrative costs borne by the company.
Pilots unable to check into the hotel limo desk will choose there own hotel and transportation at Company's expense.
30 minutes after block in take a cab at the company's expense.
Uniforms provided for and paid for by the company.
Crew Meals-meals on 1st flight of the day, for any flight over 2.5 hours long, addiditonal meals for every 4.5 hours on duty.
Other airlines suffice for the commuter policy.
DH pay greater of scheduled or actual.
APA will manage the jumpseat program and the reciprical jumpseat program.
International Override pay to 7.5% of equipment pay.
A pilot is paid an additional $100/day in any country where a travel warning is issued by the State Department. ( A layover constitutes 2 days)
All pilots will be paid 100% and all medical expenses will be paid for by the company for any illness due to pathogen or parasite on international flights. No sick time will be deducted.
Establish an onboard radiation monitoring and alerting system. Tracks pilots exposure. Pilots removed from flying with pay when a max cumulative exposure threshold is exceeded.

5. Check Airmen rules
Check airmen to be paid 88 hours for up to 16 scheduled days of work. 17th day at Check airmen's option for premium pay.
Design a Check Airmen Trip Trade with Open time system and Allow Personal Vacation Days for check airmen.
Check Airmen must fly 150 hours of proficiency hours per year. (These hours are included in max scheduled work days per month.)
Proficiency flying will be at the check airmen's discretion. Those pilots displaced will be paid and credited for the trips chosen by the check airmen.
A CKA can only fly one scheduled event per day.
CKA will have a crew rest seat for flights more than 8 hours.

6. Scheduling.
Pay clock will begin 15 minutes before door closes to 30 minutes after door opens. for all segments including DH.
Max scheduled time between legs in a single duty period is 2 hours.
Monthly line limit for pick up is 83 hours.
Reserves can only be assigned between 14 and 16 days of availability per month.
A pilot's average day pay will be the greater of scheduled calendar days or duty periods.
Short call incentive pay.
Open time proferred in seniority order.
Trip trade available for reserves.
Eliminate variance groupings i.e. 2 day avail, 3 day avail. only system seniority order.
Maintain Pass System for reserve pilots
Pilots will have 10 golden days which they can designate as untouchable.(Reserve)
All pay above guarantee paid as premium pay.

7.Career Expectations
LOS for all furloughs

8. Medical and Disability.
Eliminate all monthly medical and dental premiums. (HOORAY) (OK here is the only topic I will put my opinion into. The current American Airlines pilot health plan is $101/mo. for Pilot and spouse and 135/mo. for the entire family. I pay 268/mo for myself and my wife. Simply insane!)
Retiree medical-remainder of lifetime maximum or $300,000 whichever is higher.
Dental and vision coverage for retired pilots to be identical to active pilots.
Max family deductible for dental is $100
Wellness coverage : include PSA, PAP, colonoscopy, mammograms, annual physicals (EKG's) immunizations and vision exams at 100%
Increase hospice care to 100%
Duplicate coverage-- allow couples with more than one plan to recover up to 100% of expenses based on coverage.
Out of pocket maximum- per family LOW out of pocket max.
LTD of 60% of average monthly salary--no cap.

9. Pension
A-plan
Improve final avg. salary calculation by using highest non consecutive 36 months.
Improve timeliness of financial reporting to APA.
Increase benefit level from 1.25% to 1.667%.
Increase minimum final avg. salary from $120,000 to FAS of 12 yr 767-300 CA at monthly max.
For minimum pension benefits, eliminate the reduction in credited service for periods of disability and other non active status.
Early retirement--3% reduction starting at 57 then back to age 50.Mandatory min. funding level.
Lump sum calculations based on lesser of 3% or statutory interest rate.
B-Plan
increase defined contribution from 11% to 15%.
formalize APA involvement in investment advisory board.

 

APC225,

Just for clarification. Are these the items that are still open? Have any of them been agreed upon? Are the company's counter-proposals miles away from these?

 

APC -

That would go a long way towards explaining the delay, but where did you get that information? Doesn't the NMB preclude public posting of actual negotiation information or is that a myth like so much else?

Thanks for the insight,


Joe