AA in talks with Airbus
 

Interesting.. Makes sense with B6

American Said to Be In Talks for 100 Airbus Single-Aisle Planes - Bloomberg

Wonder if this will force Boeing into the contest for a 737 NEO option?

or merge with USA

Or looking at something to eventually replace their old and massive MD80 fleet.

if there is a merger it will be B6 buying AA...they're broke in case you haven't heard

They're broke only because AA Management wants to dump the Pilot Pay restoration, and cancel the Pilot Pensions...

I've seen this game plan before at Northwest when Management adjusted the numbers so that they could cry CH11 and dump pensions while cutting pay.

The sooner the better.

Wow, is Boeing getting their buts kicked, or what?

Mixed fleet , so many companies do it.

Correct... AMR doesn't want to rely on just one manufacturer, in case the assembly line gets shut down. Fleet diversification can make sense. Especially with the deal Airbus is probably offering.

Nothing like keeping more Europeans employed. And then we wonder why unemployment is so high in the USA. This, in my opinion, is just as bad as cabotage. Dell lost me as a repeat customer because I got tired of talking to someone in India every time I had a problem. We continue to be our own worst enemy. Maybe we should look to Europe for our CEO's. At least they don't soak the company for millions in bonuses and pay every year. :rolleyes:

With the dollar so pathetically low, how on God's earth can Airbus be offering such great deals on their planes? To the contrary, they should be a LOT more than any Boeing products. Something smells fishy here. Before you know it, they'll be offering their pilots to our companies for half the wages and benefits we get...........

Absolutely!

Since when did that ever fail to stop an airline CEO from doing something stupid???

The Euro is falling hard too. While we watch the daily gyrations of either one compared to the other, they are both falling against reality (gas, food, raw materials, etc). The true test isn't how many you get for your dollars when you get off the plane, its how much actual stuff you can buy with what you have. It ain't much in either case and will get worse in both.

I though American had a bunch of orders for 737-800's to replace the MD80's. What would an Airbus order be replacing?

Unfortunately Boeing is offering a absolutely craptastic product right now. Until they swallow their pride and realize the 737 is not the save all aircraft they'll continue to lose customers. They need to build a completely redesigned airplane with geared turbo fans to compete with the 320 NEO. Not to mention all the egg on their face from the 787 disaster.

Depending upon the model ordered it could be S80's or 757's.

I think the airbus product is garbage. Comforatable? Absolutely, but otherwise garbage. They won't stand the test of time like the 707 (still flying), 727, 737, 747, 757, and 767.

While companies may not love everything about the 737, they realize they are buying a well-made, proven, and dependable airplane. The same can't be said about Fifi.

On a related note, why do the hydraulic pumps on the A320 always sound like they're dying after shutdown? Or single engine taxi?

But I rode in the back on Alaska the other day and was quite comfortable.

Totally agree.

What happened to American Pride and supporting your own countries industry and jobs. Personally I will pay more for the same ticket on an airline that operates primarily US built equipment and when I book a ticket I refuse to book a airbus flight. Just my own little personal form of protest to the outsourcing of American jobs.

Hmmm? how much time do you have in fifi?.....i have flown both and like them both. They are different aircraft for different times. Doesnt matter how long they can last. Do you see any airlines flying 707's around? (exept for travolta)

No one cares anymore about 100 year hull life. In 20-30 years planes will be depreciated to almost nothing in either case and will be replaced anyway as fast as technology is advancing and fuel is increasing. As to the life of Airbus products, what exactly is their longevity limitation? Narrow bodies are flying around over 20 years and counting, and some of the widebodies even longer, so far without any major longevity issues.

So how is it otherwise "garbage"? Besides that you personally don't like it for whatever reason?

thats a hyd back up pump using a PTU, same as on many Douglas planes.... works great.

Cracks me up how many guys talk crap about Airbus planes who've probably never flown one... I've flown Boeing, Douglas and Airbus and I frankly think Douglas makes the best airplane... and boeing and airbus are both on the same level... not since the original 747 has boeing been a leader.. since the A320, Airbus has been a good competitor... I don't hear all the Boeing koolaid drinkers knocking the 787 the way they knock the A380.

That noise you hear is the hydraulic PTU (power transfer unit). It is not a primary source hydraulic pump. It functions basically when there is ( I think...Since I am Boeing now...and brain-dumped bus) approximately 500 psi difference btw the green and yellow hyd systems. It transfers power from one hyd system to the other system to boost the lagging side pressure. Anytime one engine is shutdown and the other is operating, you will hear the PTU operate (unless the yellow pump is electrically operated or the PTU shut off). Hence the reason you hear it during one engine taxi or shutdown. It sounds like somebody sawing on the aircraft hull.

eh' never mind

And it comes back, full circle...
News Headlines

Alcoa Wins $1 Billion Aluminum Deal with Airbus
Published: Friday, 24 Jun 2011 | 11:57 AM ET Text Size
By: Reuters

U.S. aluminum producer Alcoa said Friday it has been awarded a multiyear agreement worth about $1 billion to supply metal for Airbus commercial aircraft.


It said the deal with the European planemaker calls for Alcoa [AA 15.29 0.01 (+0.07%) ] to provide aluminum sheet and plate using current and advanced-generation aluminum alloys, which are lighter and stronger than traditional metals and composites.

Terms of the agreement, reached this week at the Paris Air Show, were not disclosed, but Alcoa said the agreement has a value of about $1 billion over its life.

Alcoa's aluminum products will be used on most Airbus commercial aircraft, from short-range, single-aisle planes to long-haul jets, including the A380, the company said.

The aluminum, for fuselage panels and structural components as well as wing skins, will be supplied from plants in Davenport, Iowa, Kitts Green, England, and Belaya Kalitva in Russia.

Alcoa is the worlds largest aluminum supplier, I would be willing to bet that Boeing receives a lot of material from them too, although I don't no that for sure. Also it does not take as many employees to process and ship materials as it does to manufacture and assemble a complex machine like an aircraft.

you guys wana go on about this American pride and such and yet I'll be a large number of you shop at Walmart, and buy Chinese made garbage all the time (I try my best to avoid it when possible)... At least the EU employes people at 1st world wages and is a fair trade partner with the US... What's China buying from us that they're not busy working on how to copy and sell on their own? And how much do Chinese workers get paid when they make the stuff that we used to buy from our own factories?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CzbT1hGwmM

Actually I avoid anything made in China when at all possible, and its been more than 5 years since I have stepped foot in a wal mart or target. I don't like the big chain stores, I try to shop at the local mom and pops as much as I can.

good for you..we're the same in my family... I wear US or EU made cloths, and own a large amount of tools, all not made in China etc... sadly, the iphone, mac, etc.. are all now made there, but it's sometimes unavoidable..

I am sick of how Walmart goes into small towns, puts the mom and pop's out of business and then re-hires them as cashiers and greeters...

anyway, back to the regularly scheduled derailed thread..

First, Airbus is a European company, so how is it "outsourcing" American jobs? It is a competitor to Boeing. By your logic, BMW, Ferrari, Fiat, Mazda, etc., are responsible for "outsourcing" American jobs as they are competition for Ford and GM. So competition and free-markets are not what you like, apparently.

Second, if you really are concerned about supporting companies that outsource American jobs, then you definitely should NOT fly on Boeing. Unlike Airbus, Boeing is an American company, but has decided to outsource overseas. Or perhaps you were unaware that the ONLY piece of the 787 that is being made in the USA is the tailfin. The rest are produced overseas, and shipped in for assembly in the USA. Even the wing, which Boeing previously had held close to home as an essential in-house and secretive manufacturing gem, is now being made by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, in Japan. This article details just where the different sections are made:

Business & Technology | Boeing 787: Parts from around world will be swiftly integrated | Seattle Times Newspaper

So to protest your aversion to "outsourcing", you had better not fly at all, seeing as how you will likely end up on an Airbus, Boeing, Canadair, or Embraer...

That article is pretty funny in hindsight. "when the 787 enters service in 2008"...yeah, right!

Eagle,

You have done a great job of taking things totally out of context. I mean you pretty much called me a Communist by saying that I don't like a free market.

By an American company not purchasing American products they are sending US dollars out of the country and taking work away from American workers. Yes I know some of the components of an airbus come form the US and that brings some of the money back and backs some of our jobs but do you really believe that it is more beneficial to our economy to bypass our own industry and import from another nation? If you do then, well you have a wright to your opinion but myself and a lot of others certainly do not agree.

I am fully aware of where the Dreamliner components are manufactured, I don't necessarily like it but it is what it is. While they do eliminate jobs by outsourcing this work the overall program keeps a lot of Americans employed. In fact Boeing is the 4th largest industrial employer in the US and 24th largest overall in the US, employing over 77,000 just in Washington state. Another large assembly plant is coming on line in Charleston SC to support the 787 assembly. This coming from MSNBC.

Bottom line when you buy from a US company you are supporting our economy more than you do from buying an import. This is true with more than just aircraft, and yes to answer another comment in your above post I have always purchased my pickup from a an American company. As for your comment that I shouldn't fly because I am supporting outsourcing, I have no problems with people buying a ERJ or CRJ because no one in the US builds anything to compete with that type of airframe.

I don't see how my personal choice to not fly on carriers that buy primarily airbus turned into such a big deal to you. It is my personal way of supporting the companies that support our own economy the most, I am not trying to push my opinions on anyone else, I am simply stating them.

The aluminum might have something to do with the possible AA purchase of 320's. If you get all the aluminum from the same mine, you dont have to paint them grey or anodize the panels so they are all the same aluminum color. So AA can keep them bare to save wait. No aluminum mine in the EU is big enough for Airbuses so if you keep it bare it looks like patch work. Remember the A300s? The painted ones were leased and the aluminum were owned but had to be treated.

Reliable? Really? Then why did the roof of a SWA 737 just peel off a couple months ago? Becuase it's such a 'superior' product? And I believe there are still plenty of A300's flying around. The DC9 is still flying, but you don't see the B717 still being built.

The 737 may be a great airplane, but in a world of $90 a barrel oil and no GTF's hanging off those wings, it ain't worth squat. Boeing needs to swallow their pride and clean off the drawing board. They're losing orders, and they will continue to until they realize the 737 is a dying airplane.

The 737NG series is "dead" ?

Aside from sounding like you have an ax to grind, you're being overdramtic.

Dealing with the French will always be a major negative.

I disagree that Boeing is making 'a(n) absolutely craptastic product' the 737 still has 2000 orders on the books for delivery. 777 still has 300 orders to be filled.. and the 787...delayed - oh yeah, a pain in P.R. department's arse - Yes. However, I would hardly call a widebody with 835 firm orders a 'disaster'. The 787 is still a revolutionary plane, although Boeing's overzelous development plan backfired, in the long run the 787 will be exceptionally successful.

I think Boeing just needs to make a decision on it's narrowbody fleet. I understand that there are potentially billions of dollars riding on the decision, but one that needs to be made none the less.

just my $.02

To get back on topic and avoid the Airbus v Boeing fight (although I enjoyed the Douglas comparison). Does anyone else think American is just playing airbus against boeing to get a sweetheart deal on another large 737NG order? I have no idea, but I would venture a guess and say they could get a great deal with the pressure Airbus is putting on them at the air show, not to mention possibly getting earlier delivery slots with the 737??

I will agree that the 777 is a great product. But the 737 NG is far from a 'new generation' aircraft. Yes it's avionics are nice, but the overhead panel needs a massive overhaul, the flight deck is tiny & noisy, & it has less efficient engines then a geared turbofan. Boeing needs to get on board with a new NB.

or....... Bombardier C Series deal??