..........

The CAMI report has long been discredited. From Age60Rule.com (14 April 2005):

Aerospace Medical Association finds no medical support for the Age 60 Rule

After 2-plus years of study, the Aerospace Medical Association's Civil Aviation Safety Subcommittee found last year (2004) that there is insufficient medical evidence and/or accident record to support airline pilot restrictions based on age alone. The Subcommittee thus suggests that the Association abandon its 20-plus year prior policy of support, and recommends that the FAA abandon the Age 60 Rule altogether, change the cutoff criteria, or raise the age limit. Note: This was one of the sources cited by ICAO in justifying it increase of the age limit for airline pilots.

The Subcommittee's recommendation to the Association's governing body, dated January 15, 2004, can be viewed at: Aerospace Medical Association Position Paper, Age 60 Rule, (.pdf, 48 Kb).

The paper was published in the Association's scientific journal Aviation, Space and Environmental Medicine, Vol. 75, No.8, August 2004.

Note: At the bottom of p.6, last sentence of the Staff paper, the AsMA Subcommittee recognizes the methodological flaws underlying Reports 3 and 4 of the FAA/CAMI 4-part study that is the subject of my DQAct complaint. Visit the "Woolsey DQAct Complaint & Docket" at left to view these Data Quality Act complaint documents.

We're still waiting
 

Bob:

We are still waiting to hear about the age 60 train wreck here at FDX. Rumor is a very large number of pilots are putting in their retirment notices now that we have a new, much improved contract. Especially in the reitrement health care arena.

Oh wait, we shouldn't have this contract now. I seem to recall some drivel you put out a couple of months ago urging us to dump all the work we (FDX ALPA) had put into negotiating this and starting all over. "Is two years really too long..." or some such crap. You've been here longer than I have and I've been a Capt for over eight years. How come you are still hiding in the right seat? It must kill you as a non-member slime ball that you are only getting a $17,700 bonus instead of the $30,000 I'm getting.

In four years you can go fly FAR 135. Oh, wait. You don't have any PIC logged for the last twenty years? Well, maybe you CAN'T go fly anywhere else. Hope the real estate business holds up. Or, you could go to the back seat of the 727. Hey eng- "How about a little more coffee?":D

EXCELLENT!!!!

Consequences
 

DALPA did the same thing. Both groups knew or should have known that a renewed push for increasing the retirement age was a foreseeable consequence of pension termination. By the same token, those who allowed "B-scales" years ago should have foreseen that there might be a payback from the junior pilots some day.

Our excuse is always "we had no choice." Maybe so, maybe not.

Tom,

You are so correct. In 1985 the UAL pilots went on strike when the only thing left on the table was the B-scale issue. This was done because we knew that accepting a permanent B-scale, as the Allied Pilots Association had done, would seriously weaken ALPA-UAL and ALPA National by the strife it would cause. :( This of course, was right up management's alley.

To this day I have the highest respect for those senior guys who honored the picket line when they were so close to retirement. :) A few actually retired on strike.

So even though it's of no benefit to me, I support modifying the age 60 rule to no less than 65. For whatever that's worth.

I am.

Your turn.

ALPA should be ashamed of what is happening. I am willing to bet, that if the DAL pilots had gone directly to management and said “take whatever you need from our contract to help us compete”, they would have given up a lot less.

Thanks line pilot, I needed a good laugh. I haven't herd a good joke in a while.:rolleyes:

must be colorado public schools...

Great Idea
 

You go directly to managment and ask to DIRECT DEAL. But first tell me when that has ever, ever worked. You are ignorant about history and management tactics. Management is looking out for themselves and shareholders, not pilots. Delta management would have bent those guys over and "taken whatever they needed" without ALPA. And just who do you think ALPA is? Your post is one of the most naive and stupid statements that I have ever heard.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...................HAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Most ignorant comment I've ever seen! Also the funniest!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH................HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

here we go again with the old pilots crying about age discrimination. If they were 20 years younger on furlough they would be singing a different tune. It is easy to support something that is going to benefit yourself isn't it. And by the way I am living on $1500 a month. If you need some finicial advice pm me and I will be glad to help.

[QUOTE=preludespeeder;71723]here we go again with the old pilots crying about age discrimination. If they were 20 years younger on furlough they would be singing a different tune. It is easy to support something that is going to benefit yourself isn't it. And by the way I am living on $1500 a month. If you need some finicial advice pm me and I will be glad to help.[/QUOTE
Thanks for chiming in with the no real experience, 16 year old perspective. I don't know anything about GA flight instructing so maybe I'll go over to that forum and give some advice on how to run their lives. Thanks for the offer, but if I need financial advice I'll find someone who can at least spell financial.

Hey Lavender Got lots of UNITY going on here. What a successful start to your new and improved goal of systematically creating unity.. Its a big f'ing joke just like you... HA HA

Will one of you change the age 60 rule guys please explaine why ICAO won't allow 2 pilots over age 60 fly together?

In case they both experience an erection lasting more than four hours at the same time.

LOL...

-LAFF

Delta management would have bent those guys over and "taken whatever they needed" without ALPA. And just who do you think ALPA is?

Maybe I am naive, I haven’t been a member of ALPA for about 10 years. The point I was trying to make is that it seems pilots at DAL and other ALPA carriers have been “bent over” by various managements all the time paying their dues to ALPA.

We're getting off topic.
 

Maybe I am naive, I haven’t been a member of ALPA for about 10 years. The point I was trying to make is that it seems pilots at DAL and other ALPA carriers have been “bent over” by various managements all the time paying their dues to ALPA.[/QUOTE]

What do you think would have happened without a union? If you want to discuss union representation, start another thread and learn something from all the experience hanging around here.
Back to the topic:
If we take another survey and members want to change our position on age 60, I won't quit like these losers that picketed or wanted to picket.. That's the difference between them and me. They are selfish pricks only interested in themselves.

[sarcasm off] I enlisted in the AF somewhere around day 75 of the hostage crisis. Spent a year in Korea as an enlisted weather observer. While there, applied to and was accepted for 1) an enlisted position on typhoon chasers, and 2) a slot to the Air Force Academy prep school. While not the sharpest tool in the shed, I opted for #2, since as long as I could slog out 5 years (bonus year for the prep school), I had a guaranteed pilot training slot.
Struggled through the zoo, went to Vance, was near the bottom of the graduates of my class; 2/3s of our class washed out. Took my KC-135 to Ellsworth followed by a T-38 IP tour in DLF followed by an RC-135 AC/IP tour.[/sarcasm off]

I don't care who you are...that there is FUUNNNNYYYY!!!!!

SWAPA has done 3 votes...the first in the mid '90s was defeated...it wasn't a straight up Age 60 vote but it was dealing with some Age 60 related issues.

In '99 it was a straight up vote (no dollar amount associated with changing it, just do you favor changing)...it was voted 60/40 in support of change. Same result in mid '03, 60/40 in support of change. Currently SWAPA's legislative agenda includes changing Age 60....one of the founders of APAAD is from SWA along with some other major players (some since retired but still working the issue for others who wish for the change to occur). Hope that answers your question.

..........

Where's that FDX age 60 train wreck Bob?

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Maybe so, but then that pilot is replaced by a senior FO who is maybe also past year 12. Then, that FO is replaced by a less senior FO who is only around year 9. Then, that FO is replaced by a fairly junior FO who is only at year 5. Then that FO is replaced by a really junior FO or senior SO at year 2 or 3. Then, that pilot is replaced by a new S/O, which leaves (finally) a nice new spot for a new hire at 25K or heaven forbid the recall of a FURLOUGHED pilot.

Nice try sonny. (middle finger picture here)

FJ

Sorry sonny!;) When one pilot retires it puts 9 to 12 in training for a new position. Your looking at 9 to 12 pilots on full pay for 2-4 months not flying one revenue trip. Very, very expensive!:(

So when the 380 comes online or the 757.........keeping over 60 guys will change the costs of that? Right George. and I'm almost as old as you.:eek:

Wow Hunter, you have figured out that training costs the company money. Congrats sonny. The hypothetical captain still gets replaced by a new hire or a furloughee.

Nice try sonny.

FJ

Thanks for chiming in with the no real experience, 16 year old perspective. I don't know anything about GA flight instructing so maybe I'll go over to that forum and give some advice on how to run their lives. Thanks for the offer, but if I need financial advice I'll find someone who can at least spell financial.[/QUOTE]

Never ceases to amaze me how the only response you give is something a school teacher would give. But I guess that is were all that experience pays off. It does not take a 121 pilot to see what the old people are trying to do, make a million dollars because they could not unify and stop the money grab of the CEO's. So now you are trying to steal it from the easiest vicitims, the younger pilots who are sitting next to you, at a crappy regional, or at home waiting for a call. But of course respect your elders because they always know what it best. If your standerds are so high that one mispelled word gives you heart attack then you must be a real joy to fly with. And your physcic abilities will not get you very far, if I was sixteen I would not be able to instruct.

If you are going to take the time to make fun of spelling and grammar in your signature you could at least take the time to make it correct in your post!:eek: Where I used to make those mistakes when I was 16 too.

I told you I knew nothing about GA/Instructing, except I do know GA/Instructing = no experience. Until you get a real job don't try telling folks with 10, 15, 20 years commercial experience what they should or shouldn't be doing with their career.

On a lighter note have a good time at the homecoming dance and the prom.