Age 60: Picketing ALPA
 

One Wednesday, October 18, a diverse group of about 20 pilots picketed in front of the Aladdin Hotel in Las Vegas where the ALPA BOD was holding its meeting. The purpose was to publicize ALPA's position on Age 60 and to influence change. Carrying the picket signs were pilots from USAir/AWA, Southwest, FedEx, and JetBlue. We had a former MEC chairman, two FedEx pilots who had resigned from ALPA, pilots from SWAPA, and non-union pilots.

The event was covered locally by several TV stations who did a great job of reporting the facts. At one point, several members of the ALPA BOD happened to walk by and appeared to be quite surprised by what was happening. One suggested that he would go up and get newly-elected John Prater to come down and speak with us. I said, "Please do. We have two pilots here that walked the picket line with him for two years and they would like to see him." It didn't happen but I think it would be a good idea at some point.

It is interesting to me that Age 60 is now a "union vs. union" matter that is highlighting how out of touch with society that ALPA and the AFL-CIO have become. Both SWAPA and the Teamsters have strongly endorsed a change to the Age 60 rule and, on November 23, 2006, it will be ALPA vs. ALPA when Air Canada Jazz begins flying in this country with pilots past age 60.

One cannot help but marvel at seeing union and non-union pilots picketing together against ALPA. The Age 60 matter is becoming a unifying force with a life of its own.

We were all pleasantly shocked by the ouster of Duane Woerth, and there is no doubt in my mind that the Age 60 issue, along with pilot resignations and other protests, was part of pushing the close vote over the edge. John Prater's platform indicated no real change from the status quo but, hopefully, his election will provide the opportunity for new ideas to come forth quickly.

Best quote (from FedEx pilot, Chuck Henry):

In 1983, I started picketing for two years on behalf of ALPA. Twenty-three years later, I am picketing picketing against ALPA. It is weird."

Bob

Sorry I could not attend because of a daughter getting married. Good Job!

how do u guys carry picket signs with a cane in one hand and an oxygen tank in the other...?

This is dumb. (I know, I know, they just do it to get a rise out of the rest of us.)

Just received this morning. Maybe we will see a change to the status quo:

By John Schmeltzer
Tribune staff reporter
Published October 19, 2006

..."The airline industry survived because of the concessions pilots and other workers made," said Prater, who lives in southern Illinois and flies out of Newark Liberty International Airport. "Now it is time for us to see a tangible return on these bitter investments."

He also could lead a change in the group's official opposition to raising the retirement age from 60 years old. The rule was imposed by the Federal Aviation Administration in 1959. Legislation to overturn the age limit is pending in Congress.

Prater wants the FAA to follow the lead of the International Civil Aviation Authority and adopt a retirement age of 65.

Copyright c 2006, Chicago Tribune

Things are happening fast.

They are so out of touch they did a poll of their membership on the age 60 rule. We all know what the results were. Did SWAPA do a poll? Or do they simply have a vocal minority driving their agenda?

Schmeltzer? NOT a reliable source. A HIGHLY BIASED source on this issue.

Prater won't do sh!t without another ALPA poll. And I think that there will be a LOT of recently returned furloughees who will vote. Any guesses on how they'd vote?
There may be a vocal minority, but that is not going to change ALPA's policy.

For those pushing for a change, you need to rethink your strategy. Settle for being an FO after 60. There is far too much opposition to you remaining in the left seat past 60.
This issue's dead for at least two more years.

Like it or not...the change is inevitable

You sure do seem mighty threatened by this. Your hostility suggests you realize your rants on message boards can't keep change from happening.

Bob, get a clue.
 

ALPA doesn't represent you and has no reason to talk to you. They represent dues paying members, not selfish one issue quitters who don't care about furloughed pilots.

Lavender, You will never touch the Holy Grail of the industry. WIDE BODY CAPTAIN. Age 60, 65, 165. NEVER you can't. And by the way all those easy trips you fly with your other FREELOADING buddies, will be gone if the age ever changes. Can't have 2 over 60 in the same CP. And that bad back of yours wont get you through the 2nd class medical. Like JL said we don't need anymore part-time FOs around FDX Hang up your stripes!!! Go sell real estate to the CULT. Or maybe used cars, that pic of you on your web site definitely looks like the face of a used car salesman.

Behold, the real issue is blatant age discrimination. Your comment is deplorable, Please apologize.

How about letting passengers look up front to see grandpa at the controls and let them decide if they still want to go!

First it's 65, then it'll be 67, and so on, and so on..........:rolleyes:

Again, I say Behold, the real issue is blatant age discrimination. Your comment is deplorable, Please apologize.:mad: :mad:

What about the air traffic controller that has to retire at 57 or the customs pilot that has to do the same. I say it is you who are being selfish in looking out for your own needs at the end of the game. Even the AARP discriminates against young people by not letting them join and enjoy their benefits.:mad:

:cool: Suppose the culture at CAL breeds that sort of leadership.........

:p Wait I need to get my reading glasses first................

BEHOLD OV1 - you sound like Charleston Heston. Keep holding your breath for an apology gramps because it's not coming! You guys knew the policy when you started your careers now you want to change it to benefit your personal agenda.

You can say goodbye to the seniority list if this legislation is passed. But then again, you guys don't care because you're already senior enough to screw everyone below you.:rolleyes:

Here's two words for ya: play golf.

Um, OK. Your perspective on my efforts.
The pro-change crowd is well organized and gets the word out to our politicians. I am merely trying to rally the MAJORITY of pilots to rebut the pro change crowd.
I may not stop this from changing, but at least I'll have put forth my best effort to stop it. It sounds like you'd prefer that I sit silently on the sidelines.

I will vote Democrat. How about you?

What scares pax more: grandpa driving or a 16 year old at the controls? seen some of these rj drivers lately?

How about updating your profile? I'm trying to get a feel for your credentials, and your current profile isn't hacking it.

How about using the frickin' search function?

Actually I hope when you correspond with politicians you stress the point "they knew the rules when they signed on". I think that's the best argument you got going and should impress all those over 60 Senators and Congressmen.

That is funny!

No need for that. I'm not sure what to put in the search function.

Let me try again. All your profile refers to is a military staff background...yet you speak out on airline subjects. I don't think these subjects are the norm for Air Staff discussions (but I may be wrong...much has happened since I retired).

What airline background do you have?

Simple question...can't be that hard to answer.

And the ALPA poll (or your opinion) means only this: "You old highly-experienced pilots move out and let me move up", and nothing else. But I would like each of you who feel that way to look one of us in the eye and promise that when you reach age 60 you will immediately resign!!! Each and every one of you who opposes the change now knows that the law will change a long time before you reach that age, but of course that will be fine as long as a few more hundred of us get off top of the seniority lists. Now look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that the real reason is "safety". You all need to be ashamed of yourselves.

And the people who voted for the change in the ALPA poll means only this :" Screw you guys out on the street and in the right seat. I've got mine." I can make that promise. I have no intention on working till 65, only to die at 67. And if I win the lottery, I'll quit tomorrow and buy a plane.

You are the one's that should be ashamed.

How eloquent!

I plan on attending the next event, in 22 years when I'm 59 1/2. Isn't that how it works?

Never ceases to amaze me how people insist on trying to change age 60 to their benefit, while at the same time screwing the career expectations of others. I sure hope age 60 stays for a number of reasons, but one in particular is the financial impact that keeping the higher paid folks around will have on the industry. You guys don't deserve anything more than the forty somethings and thirty somethings behind you....So stop your crying, plenty of 135 flying to be done!

ALPA got this one right!

Never ceases to amaze me that people will try to use the agument about the higher paid folks.:( Since most ALPA top out at 12 years the 35 year old replacing the 60 year old have the exact same pay rate. Sorry sonny.;)

Done.

Tell me where to foward said information. I'd love to go at 55 but am not sure what that would do to my already meager retirement.

Why are your needs more important than mine?
 

You're right most of ALPA tops out at 12 years, doesn't change the fact that the bean counters make the budgets based on those leaving at age 60 which incidentally as you mentioned, includes guys that are topped out.

But the real issue is why do you think your carrier expectations are more important than the guys in their 20's and the guys in their 30's? I can't speak for the guys in their 40's as I'm not there yet, but speaking as someone in their early 30's, my career goals would suffer as a byproduct of raising the age. Before anyone brings up tragedy into the equation (a la 9/11), age 60 is a controllable factor in this equation, catastrophes are not and we're talking about things we can control.

So again, respectfully, why are your needs more important than mine?

They aren't, your needs are more important to you and my needs are more important to me. Your career expectations are something you arbitrarily come up with and are as volatile as the world in which we live. So I'm guessing if something changed you would adjust those expectations, as most of us have, and if they were not satisfactory you would find something else to do. As the guys approaching 60 have been told there are many 135 jobs out there.

OK, I know that this newfangled internet stuff ... a series of tubes, to quote Sen Stevens .... is pretty darned complicated.
However, if you actually chose to go to the search function and put in search by user name (in this case, ANDY) OR, even more simply, clicked on my name and then clicked on, 'find more posts by andy,' most of your questions would be answered.

Nah, I don't bother discussing that or the senior pilots' greed. I prefer to reference the published CAMI reports with respect to the 'U' curve that starts upward at age 55.

What really is scary, and unfortunately the passengers are not able to see it, is that there are crewmembers like you with such blatantly selfish and immature thought processes driving jets. Take a poll amongst the flying public (especially after the Lexington embarrassment): do they want mature, experienced pilots, or immature hotheads like you and the other like-minded posters on these forums?

That worked...thanks for that tip. That search function is much better than what many other boards offer.

Good luck with the recall plans.

What did you do when on active duty?

Yeah, we knew the rules when we hired on. Also, part of the rule was afull retirement check which Ual ALPA signed away at UAL for a $550 million dollar
payoff. Lets see you live on $2000 a month flyboy