The East has a solid scope and fragmentation clause. The West has at the very least, minimum hours/aircraft.

So we would both have to agree to give that up...without getting anything in return? Hmmm, I say ;) (Not saying it might not happen, if 50%+1 votes FOR whatever comes down the pike).

Next.

This is indeed a possibility. And the East might just accept the 'Nic if this happens. But still, 50%+1 is what's required. Or the West might just agree to bend a little also...i.e. both sides bends a little...

I also believe scope/fragmentation will have to be "softened" (if you can actually do that without almost scrapping it), because Parker wants to downsize PHX somewhat.

Forest for the trees, indeed...

Are you saying USAPA is the good on the other side of the forest? If you are can I have what you're on, I have a couple days off so it'll be out of my system, and if I fail a pee test I promise I won't rat you out.

I am surprised any USAIR east guys even know how to use a computer.

Hey, we learn typing across the tracks...;)

I'm definitely not saying USAPA is the good. Just that the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don't. I haven't heard any details about these 7 year fences. If they're domicile and not equipment based, Parker and Co. will be able to furlough out of seniority order.

I know there is a no furlough clause in the agreement but history shows those aren't worth the paper they're written on. All I'm saying is people need to look past the pay rates and keep their head out of the clouds on this one. Management does what's in their best interest, not ours.....PERIOD. Maybe several years under US Airways management and USAPA has made me cynical but I'm keeping an eyebrow raised until we know more details.

There are also a about 1100 Eagle pilots with rights to Mainline. This is an arbitrated decision that has to be honored. All remaining Eagle pilots were offered a guaranteed job at AA with no interview or medical. Again, it is contractual between AA and the Eagle pilots.

Only the bankruptcy judge can null this, which he would need a good reason to do.

I'm sure that would stay in-tact but any flow up after the SLI is finished would still go to the bottom. You can't have any career expectations for a job you don't yet have. Not trying to be an a$$ just saying how I think that scenario would play out.

Actually, 253 have AA numbers and 824 have possible hiring preference via Nicolau like you said.

Those hiring rights kick-in after all furloughed pilots from both carriers are offered recall, the 253 are offered transfer and aside from being metered on a ratio with new-hires from the street, they'd be further watered down due to no hiring preference from the U side of the combined carrier.

Bottom line, is it will be MANY years before even the most senior of the 824 see themselves in a future mainline class (that's IF Parker doesn't find some excuse to weasel out of it).

Eagle may have long melted to half its size (or smaller) over those intervening years. I'd not count to heavily on the 824 provision.

Well a positive thing is the attrition coming up. Looking short term the next 5 years retirements look like this for a combined amr/lcc

2013- 269
2014- 346
2015- 357
2016- 436
2017- 550

That is over 2000 pilot's in 5 years, and it picks up substantially from there.