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-   -   Delta has a TA (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/67410-delta-has-ta.html)

DALFA 05-16-2012 05:45 PM

Make no mistake Michael Cambell is the king of union busting and was one of the founders of Ford & Harrison. So far at Delta they've been successful to win EVERY representational election outside of the pilots and dispatchers (who have been unionized for quite some time). In the late 90s the Simulator Instructors succeeded in joining TWU but after a few years were forced to de-certify because Delta was making their life a living hell (straight from the mouth of the TWU International President).

If I was a pilot at Delta i'd want the reps to all vote YES to allowing the group to vote on the TA. After all, shouldn't the membership decide? Voting YES to send the TA to the membership isn't endorsing the TA it's saying the membership should decide.

Now, if it gets to you guys I would hope that you get the answers to EVERY possible scenario that could take place if the TA is ratified. This business of having a TA 7 months before the amendable date isn't just unusual...it's UNHEARD of. Unless management is planning something big. Find out what the "big" is and make sure it doesn't harm your group.

That's just my cents.

Btw: Alaska just named a new CEO http://www.nasdaq.com/article/brad-t...20120515-00580
Just something to think about

Bucking Bar 05-16-2012 06:00 PM

Image files were yanked ...

Sink r8 05-16-2012 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1189807)
Kind of reminds me of Pancho Barnes defense to the allegations she was running a brothel for pilots. Her response; "pilots don't pay for sex, never have, never will."

She won her case.

You mean because Pancho was thought to be rather ugly? Otherwise, it's a poor comparison. Pancho was trying to let pilots do what Campbell is trying to do to pilots.

gloopy 05-16-2012 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by Stagger Lee (Post 1189675)
So much chest thumping by the angry f/o knitting club. We get it, hold your breath and vote no no matter what and RA will be forced to hand over the keys to the executive washroom cause you have him over a barrel. He couldn't possibly just then drag out negotiations for 5 or 6 years. He will immediately capitulate. That's the plan right?

Kind of wondering, are all you scope or die warriors going to send 1/3 of your pay to the deadzoners who have lost so much and have very little time or chance of recovery? Or are they just collateral damage? Just what is the plan for them? Or is it a secret? Inquiring minds and all...

Its asinine to sell more jobs just to give a few extra percent to a small group (and that's all it is) that will retire under this contract. Screw the profession even more, which is supposedly why some need the money now...because it got screwed before, to get a little more money and then be even weaker when everyone else (the vast majority of the list) is a dead zoner. Nice try. How about we sell top end scope, which is probably worth a lot more, to get a bigger bottom end raise. Majority rules, right? Profession be damned, we need money in our pockets today by any means necessary!

gloopy 05-16-2012 06:24 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1189807)

Kind of reminds me of Pancho Barnes defense to the allegations she was running a brothel for pilots. Her response; "pilots don't pay for sex, never have, never will."

She won her case.

Oh we pay, just not by the hour. We pay a flat rate of half our stuff every 5-10 years. :cool:

Sink r8 05-16-2012 06:26 PM


Originally Posted by Stagger Lee (Post 1189675)
So much chest thumping by the angry f/o knitting club. We get it, hold your breath and vote no no matter what and RA will be forced to hand over the keys to the executive washroom cause you have him over a barrel. He couldn't possibly just then drag out negotiations for 5 or 6 years. He will immediately capitulate. That's the plan right?

Kind of wondering, are all you scope or die warriors going to send 1/3 of your pay to the deadzoners who have lost so much and have very little time or chance of recovery? Or are they just collateral damage? Just what is the plan for them? Or is it a secret? Inquiring minds and all...

Where Lee staggers is that he can't help but add the second, gratuitous paragraph.

I see his point in 1, but he completely fails in 2. Whay? Because any contract that doesn't work for the entire group is a failure. We may not get as much as we thought, but whatever we get, we better get it together.

The path to a contract will be based on people deciding that the value of the bird in the hand is worth enough, not based on the fact they got to screw someone else. I didn't see anything in the NNP that harms deadzoners, and you can't argue with a straight face that Scope is simply an RJ problem.

Bucking Bar 05-16-2012 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by Stagger Lee (Post 1189675)
Kind of wondering, are all you scope or die warriors going to send 1/3 of your pay to the deadzoners who have lost so much and have very little time or chance of recovery? Or are they just collateral damage? Just what is the plan for them? Or is it a secret? Inquiring minds and all...

FWIW, even with the set backs, they did better than the "Angry F/O knitting club" will. Even at the end of the parade they were year two upgrades to Express, then enjoyed the wave of the early retirements. It can pretty safely be assumed how those votes will go.


80ktsClamp 05-16-2012 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1189837)
FWIW, even with the set backs, they did better than the "Angry F/O knitting club" will. Even at the end of the parade they were year two upgrades to Express, then enjoyed the wave of the early retirements. It can pretty safely be assumed how those votes will go.


Yep.... The likes of Stagger Lee got 5 more years in the left seat. I got 5 more years of reserve narrowbody FO.

Lysithea25 05-16-2012 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1189837)
FWIW, even with the set backs, they did better than the "Angry F/O knitting club" will. Even at the end of the parade they were year two upgrades to Express, then enjoyed the wave of the early retirements. It can pretty safely be assumed how those votes will go.


Nice photo. :p

Well I meant the previous one.

cubflyer 05-16-2012 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by Jack Bauer (Post 1189748)
http://filecache.drivetheweb.com/mr4...ampbell_hr.jpg

In case any of you were wondering, this is the guy running the show, backed by RA. My guess, he came up with the "big opportunity" concept along with the hint of more airplanes (ie 717/A319). Haha they always include the more airplanes hook because pilots always bite.

I think Mr. Campbell realized it would take even more creativity this round and hence the "big opportunity contingent on an accelerated timeline" pitch. This is just a hunch and I hope I'm wrong but right now it seems pretty clear this is whats happening.

Make no mistake about it, this is a smart guy and that is why Delta hired him from his union busting firm. He knows how pilots think and how to get into their heads. Makes us want to say "YES!" even when the deal is not good or could even damage our potential compensation, movement and QOL. It is his job and he has been very effective at what he does for many years.

He has bad teeth though.........:D


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